[Avodah] Be among the talmidim of Aharon
avodah at lists.aishdas.org
Mon Jul 6 17:12:31 PDT 2015
From: Lisa Liel via Avodah <avodah at lists.aishdas.org>
The sheer vitriol I've seen from Orthodox Jews over the past days since
the Supreme Court decision making same-sex civil marriage the law of
the land in the United States has been overwhelming. And I just don't
get it. And it's part and parcel of the viciousness I've seen from so
many otherwise loving frum Jews over the years when it comes to this
I have seen none of that "vitriol" or "viciousness," either in the past few
days or in the last few years, or ever. On the contrary, all I see is an
almost desperate attempt to be conciliatory, a desperate if hopeless wish
not to be the *victims* of liberal, anti-religious vitriol.
See for example "A Letter by Reb Ahron Feldman to a Gay Baal Teshuva"
Also see Agudath Israel's statement on the recent Supreme Court
It reads, in part, "we are deeply concerned that, as a result of today’s
ruling, and as the dissenting Justices have pointed out, members and
institutions of traditional communities like the Orthodox Jewish community we
represent may incur moral opprobrium and risk tangible negative consequence if
they refuse to transgress their beliefs, and even if they simply teach and
express their religious views publicly."
I might add that Lisa's post, being an emotional cri de coeur, really
belongs on Areivim. However, since she has posted it to Avodah, I will add my
own comments previously posted on Cross-Currents:
Here, for the record, is what our ancient Torah heritage has to say about
The nations are allowed to continue in existence only because they keep a
minimum of three mitzvos. These are: not writing marriage documents for the
union of two males, not selling human flesh in the market place, and giving
honor to the Torah—which in practice means, not persecuting the people of
the Torah, the Jewish people.
In one of his prophetic visions, the Navi (prophet) Zechariah took thirty
pieces of silver and threw them into the Temple treasury in Jerusalem
(Zechariah 11:13). The Rabbis of the Talmud had varying interpretations of what
this vision symbolized. According to Rabbi Ulla (Talmud Chullin 92B), the
thirty pieces of silver symbolized the thirty mitzvos that the Bnei Noach
accepted upon themselves. These thirty mitzvos include not worshipping idols,
not consulting witchcraft and sorcery, refraining from illicit sexual
relationships, and so on. (Bnei Noach are the Sons of Noah, also called Noahides—
i.e., the nations of the world.)
Rabbi Ulla says that the world continues to exist because the nations
accepted these thirty mitzvos. However, he adds, the nations do not keep all the
mitzvos they accepted. They keep only three, and one of the three is: “
They do not write a marriage contract for males.” Rashi comments that the
nations do engage in forbidden homosexual relations, but they at least
acknowledge that such relations are illicit by not formalizing those relations in
The other two commandments that they keep are that they do not sell human
flesh in the market place, and that they give honor to the Torah (Talmud
Elsewhere the Rabbis of old stated that the final decree of destruction,
the Great Flood, was sealed against the generation of Noach because they
wrote marriage documents for males. “Rabbi Huna said in the name of Rabbi
Yosef, ‘The generation of the Flood was not wiped out until they wrote marriage
documents for the union of a man to a male or to an animal ’ ” (Genesis
Rabbah 26:5; Leviticus Rabbah 23:9).
Implicit is the assumption that if the nations do not abide by at least the
aforementioned three mitzvos, they may forfeit the very right to exist.
Hence, these three—not writing marriage documents for males, not selling
human flesh in the marketplace, and honoring the Torah—may be considered the
Three Conditions for the continued existence of mankind.
So you see, the idea of gay marriage is not new, not a fresh idea that
represents the ultimate development, enlightenment and evolution of mankind.
No, the formal marriage of two men is a very ancient idea that represents the
degradation of mankind.
I will add a further point to what I wrote in 2011:
The reason the gay pride movement adopted rainbow colors as their symbol is
that the rainbow is the sign of Hashem’s promise not to wipe out the
entire world again in one big flood. They wave the rainbow flag in defiance of
Him, as if to say, “Ha ha, You can’t touch us!” The message of the rainbow
flag is, “We are major sinners, like the generation of the Flood.” But
they are whistling in the dark if they think there won’t be consequences. May
Hashem protect His people, those who are chassidei umos ha’olam as well as
us, Klal Yisrael.
t613k at aol.com
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