[Avodah] Be among the talmidim of Aharon
Micha Berger via Avodah
avodah at lists.aishdas.org
Sun Jul 5 17:34:23 PDT 2015
On Sun, Jul 05, 2015 at 05:57:04PM -0500, Lisa Liel wrote:
: In Pirkei Avot, Hillel HaZaken says: "Be among the talmidim of Aharon,
: loving peace and pursuing peace, loving people and bringing them close
: to the Torah."
: I don't get it. I honestly don't. If we see a bunch of Jews who don't
: know anything about Judaism, shouldn't we try and get them to keep the
First, a minor correction. Hillel says "berios", or as in the tradition
"loving people and bringing them..."
IOW, not only kiruv, but bringing non-Jews to NNoachidism.
: The sheer vitriol I've seen from Orthodox Jews over the past days since
: the Supreme Court decision making same-sex civil marriage the law of
: the land in the United States has been overwhelming. And I just don't
: get it. And it's part and parcel of the viciousness I've seen from so
: many otherwise loving frum Jews over the years when it comes to this
I'm not so sure. The SCOTUS ruled in favor of a right that is based
on the idea that believing the Torah's position about homosexuality
But in any case, it's like any other rule of tochachah... You need to tell
them what they're doing is wrong n a way that gets constructive change.
The usual rule for when you should shut up is "mutav sheyihyu shogegim",
but here nearly everyone involved know what we pasqen it's assur. So,
you're not turning anyone into meizidim.
: It makes no sense to me. I mean, worst case, you tell someone gay,
: "There are things you aren't allowed to do according to Jewish law.
: Are you willing to abide by that?" But we aren't even doing that.
: We're assuming that the answer is going to be no, and by so assuming,
: we're *making that happen*.
But the US law in question is itself to permit something you aren't
allowed to do in Jewish law, and in the Minchas Chinukh's opinion --
nor in Noachide law.
The general problem of people hating the sinner rather than the sin
isn't limited to this one. Perhaps here things are more extreme because
the accusers do not attempt to separate an instinctive loathing from
actual halachic concerns.
Either we should be getting similar bile when discussing business
cheats, or we should be getting quiet on both fronts.
Micha Berger Between stimulus & response, there is a space.
micha at aishdas.org In that space is our power to choose our
http://www.aishdas.org response. In our response lies our growth
Fax: (270) 514-1507 and our freedom. - Victor Frankl, (MSfM)
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