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<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2
face=Arial>From: Lisa Liel via Avodah
<avodah@lists.aishdas.org><BR><BR>The sheer vitriol I've seen from
Orthodox Jews over the past days since<BR>the Supreme Court decision making
same-sex civil marriage the law of<BR>the land in the United States has been
overwhelming. And I just don't<BR>get it. And it's part and parcel
of the viciousness I've seen from so<BR>many otherwise loving frum Jews over the
years when it comes to
this<BR>subject.<BR><BR><BR>Lisa<BR><BR></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>>>>></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have seen none of that "vitriol" or "viciousness," either in the past few
days or in the last few years, or ever. On the contrary, all I see is an
almost desperate attempt to be conciliatory, a desperate if hopeless wish not to
be the *victims* of liberal, anti-religious vitriol. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>See for example "A Letter by Reb Ahron Feldman to a Gay Baal Teshuva"</DIV>
<DIV> <A
href="https://guardyoureyes.com/resources/ssa/item/a-letter-by-reb-ahron-feldman-to-a-gay-baal-teshuva">https://guardyoureyes.com/resources/ssa/item/a-letter-by-reb-ahron-feldman-to-a-gay-baal-teshuva</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Also see Agudath Israel's statement on the recent Supreme Court
gay-marriage decision</DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2015/06/28/agudath-israel-statement-on-supreme-court-marriage-ruling/">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2015/06/28/agudath-israel-statement-on-supreme-court-marriage-ruling/</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It reads, in part, "we are deeply concerned that, as a result of today’s
ruling, and as the dissenting Justices have pointed out, members and
institutions of traditional communities like the Orthodox Jewish community we
represent may incur moral opprobrium and risk tangible negative consequence if
they refuse to transgress their beliefs, and even if they simply teach and
express their religious views publicly." </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I might add that Lisa's post, being an emotional <SPAN
data-dobid="hdw">cri de coeur,</SPAN> really belongs on Areivim. However,
since she has posted it to Avodah, I will add my own comments previously posted
on Cross-Currents:</DIV>
<DIV>
<P>Here, for the record, is what our ancient Torah heritage has to say about
homosexual marriage:</P>
<P>The nations are allowed to continue in existence only because they keep a
minimum of three mitzvos. These are: not writing marriage documents for the
union of two males, not selling human flesh in the market place, and giving
honor to the Torah—which in practice means, not persecuting the people of the
Torah, the Jewish people.</P>
<P>In one of his prophetic visions, the Navi (prophet) Zechariah took thirty
pieces of silver and threw them into the Temple treasury in Jerusalem (Zechariah
11:13). The Rabbis of the Talmud had varying interpretations of what this vision
symbolized. According to Rabbi Ulla (Talmud Chullin 92B), the thirty pieces of
silver symbolized the thirty mitzvos that the Bnei Noach accepted upon
themselves. These thirty mitzvos include not worshipping idols, not consulting
witchcraft and sorcery, refraining from illicit sexual relationships, and so on.
(Bnei Noach are the Sons of Noah, also called Noahides—i.e., the nations of the
world.)</P>
<P>Rabbi Ulla says that the world continues to exist because the nations
accepted these thirty mitzvos. However, he adds, the nations do not keep all the
mitzvos they accepted. They keep only three, and one of the three is: “They do
not write a marriage contract for males.” Rashi comments that the nations do
engage in forbidden homosexual relations, but they at least acknowledge that
such relations are illicit by not formalizing those relations in legal
documents.</P>
<P>The other two commandments that they keep are that they do not sell human
flesh in the market place, and that they give honor to the Torah (Talmud Chullin
92B).</P>
<P>Elsewhere the Rabbis of old stated that the final decree of destruction, the
Great Flood, was sealed against the generation of Noach because they wrote
marriage documents for males. “Rabbi Huna said in the name of Rabbi Yosef, ‘The
generation of the Flood was not wiped out until they wrote marriage documents
for the union of a man to a male or to an animal ’ ” (Genesis Rabbah 26:5;
Leviticus Rabbah 23:9).</P>
<P>Implicit is the assumption that if the nations do not abide by at least the
aforementioned three mitzvos, they may forfeit the very right to exist. Hence,
these three—not writing marriage documents for males, not selling human flesh in
the marketplace, and honoring the Torah—may be considered the Three Conditions
for the continued existence of mankind.</P>
<P>So you see, the idea of gay marriage is not new, not a fresh idea that
represents the ultimate development, enlightenment and evolution of mankind. No,
the formal marriage of two men is a very ancient idea that represents the
degradation of mankind.</P>
<P><A href="http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2011/07/28/4524/"
rel=nofollow>http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2011/07/28/4524/</A></P>
<P>I will add a further point to what I wrote in 2011:</P>
<P>The reason the gay pride movement adopted rainbow colors as their symbol is
that the rainbow is the sign of Hashem’s promise not to wipe out the entire
world again in one big flood. They wave the rainbow flag in defiance of Him, as
if to say, “Ha ha, You can’t touch us!” The message of the rainbow flag is, “We
are major sinners, like the generation of the Flood.” But they are whistling in
the dark if they think there won’t be consequences. May Hashem protect His
people, those who are chassidei umos ha’olam as well as us, Klal Yisrael.</P>
<DIV
style="OVERFLOW: hidden; TEXT-DECORATION: none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-ALIGN: left; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)"><BR>Read
more: <A style="COLOR: #003399"
href="http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2015/06/29/scotus-on-same-gender-what-it-means-what-it-doesnt/#ixzz3f9x0mazM">http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2015/06/29/scotus-on-same-gender-what-it-means-what-it-doesnt/#ixzz3f9x0mazM</A>
<BR></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><BR><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff>--Toby
Katz<BR></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff>t613k@aol.com</FONT></STRONG><FONT lang=0
color=#ffffff size=2 face=Arial FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
PTSIZE="10"><BR><STRONG>..</STRONG></FONT><FONT lang=0 color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
PTSIZE="10"><BR><STRONG>=============</STRONG><BR><BR><BR>-------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV>
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