[Avodah] torah u-madda

[Rich, Joel]

Sounds like a fascinating and thought-provoking symposium.
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jr-agreed
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Right at the end there, though, you have a good example of what's wrong with TuM.  They care way too much about what is and isn't "science" and they believe that science has an exclusive claim on "truth."
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jr-wadr, no. iiuc they believe that the reality we percieve through the senses that hkb"h gave us to experience his world, must be reconciled with the reality that hkb'h  revealed to us at sinai
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[C] There was no Creator and no Creation, the universe just "is."  This is what Science believes.  Is this also what TuM believes?
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jr-iiuc no, see above
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I think that MO try to distance themselves from Intelligent Design because they know that ID is viewed with utter disdain by the scientific community.
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jr-no,iiuc they are trying to see if ID meets test 1 (perceived reality constraint) - if not, then can't accept just because it would be easier to reconcile with 2
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   Well I have bad news for them.  Es vet zey gornisht helfen.  The Scientists whose approval they crave view them as one of the lowest forms of life, barely above the worms known as Charedim.

--Toby Katz
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 jr-iiuc they crave only the approval of hkb"h in doing what they understand to be his ratzon.  I am not mkabel the statement about "scientists" as a group
ckv"s
Joel Rich
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