[Mesorah] "Teven" at the end of a pasuk

[Akiva Miller]

As it was explained to me, geshem/gashem is NOT about differences in the
pronunciation rules. Rather, they are different views about where the
phrase ends. This is explained at length, with many sources and notes, at
https://ohr.edu/this_week/insights_into_halacha/4903

Some feel that that "Mashiv haruach umorid hagashem" is a sentence on its
own, and has a pause after it, and that's why "gashem" has the kamatz. The
opposing view is that this is not an independent sentence, but is just the
first phrase in a long list of phrases, and therefore, the segol appears in
"geshem" exactly the same way as it appears three words later in "chesed".

I concede that the above theory has problems. If "Mashiv haruach
umorid hagashem" is just the first phrase in a long list of phrases, then
perhaps the same should apply to "Morid hatal", and "tal" would have a
patach instead of a kamatz. But I don't think I've ever seen that. [It has
a patach in Barech Alenu, because that is unquestionably in the middle of a
phrase.] According to footnote 15 in the article cited above, Rav Yaakov
Kamenetsky justifies the kamatz in "morid hatal" by explaining that it is
NOT the first phrase of "Mechalkel Chaim B'chesed", but is rather the final
phrase of "Atah Gibor".

When I am the shliach tzibur, I am careful to EITHER say "hagAshem" and
have a long pause afterward, OR say "hagEshem" with a pause no longer than
the one after "b'chesed". I have heard other people make the same sort of
quick pause, but this distinction seems to go over the heads of most.

According to what I have written, if a siddur publisher chooses to put a
segol in "geshem", then they should follow it with a comma (like after
"b'chesed"), and *not* with a period. But alas, I have not seen that
anywhere. And even if they did, I wonder if anyone would notice.

Akiva Miller



On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 4:19 AM Aaron Gal via Mesorah <
mesorah at lists.aishdas.org> wrote:

> Why Ashkenazim cute "Morid HaGashem", and the Sephardim - Morid HaGeshem.
>
> May be more difficult:  Nosach Sefard -
> why:
> Vethen Tal U'Matar, ("Tal" - Patach)
> but
> Morid HaTol ("Tol" - Kamatz)
> but Morid HaGeshem (Segol, and not Kamatz)
>
>
> Aaron
> 201-414-7190
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Akiva Miller via Mesorah <mesorah at lists.aishdas.org>
> To: mesorah at aishdas.org
> Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2021 10:02 pm
> Subject: [Mesorah] "Teven" at the end of a pasuk
>
> I was surprised to find that the word "teven" occurs at the end of several
> pesukim (Shmos 5:7, 5:10, 5:12, 5:13) *without* changing its pronunciation
> to "taven".
>
> I was *going* to ask this learned chevra if there might be other such
> words which remain segol-segol even at the end of a pasuk, but I was
> surprised at how quickly the example of "melech" came to my mind. Bereshis
> 14:17 and 49:20, Esther 1:5 and 7:4, are just a few examples of "melech" at
> the end of a pasuk. Looking through my concordance, I was unable to find
> any cases where it changed to "malech".
>
> So I'm not going to ask why "teven" and "melech" are exceptions to the
> rule. Rather, I am learning the lesson that Rabbi Mandel has told us so
> many times: There are no iron-clad rules, only *general* rules, which were
> born to have exceptions. And as such, the exceptions should not be so
> surprising. The same way that the sh'va of "shtayim" ("two") is a sh'va
> nach despite being on the first letter, so too do the segols of "melech"
> remain so despite being in the last word.
>
> Why? Because that's how languages work, that's why.
>
> To reiterate: I am not asking any questions here. I'm simply bringing it
> to the attention of the chevra in case anyone else didn't notice it, or
> wants to comment.
>
> Good Shabbos to all
> Akiva Miller
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