[Mesorah] Hoshanot: Samech vs Sin

[Mandel, Seth]

So you can expect lain to him that the sin vs. samekh is the same as writing nice with a c versus right with an igh


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On October 20, 2019 at 2:41:55 PM EDT, Henry Topas <hanktopas at gmail.com> wrote:
Your point is (as usual) excellent!

The congregant is a math professor at a Montreal university and often is perturbed by some perceived incongruities.  On the positive side, he usually prepares very beautiful gematria discussions for us.

Thank you all once again

HT


On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 2:38 PM Mandel, Seth <mandels at ou.org<mailto:mandels at ou.org>> wrote:
Halvai that you can convince all your congregants that simchat Yomtov and the mitzva of loving fellow Jews are far more important than details.
Details are so very important in the Torah, but some people have no sense of priorities.

Rabbi Dr. Seth Mandel

________________________________
From: Mesorah <mesorah-bounces at lists.aishdas.org<mailto:mesorah-bounces at lists.aishdas.org>> on behalf of Henry Topas via Mesorah <mesorah at lists.aishdas.org<mailto:mesorah at lists.aishdas.org>>
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2019 2:35 PM
To: Sholom Simon <sholom90 at gmail.com<mailto:sholom90 at gmail.com>>
Cc: Mesorah AishDas List <Mesorah at lists.aishdas.org<mailto:Mesorah at lists.aishdas.org>>
Subject: Re: [Mesorah] Hoshanot: Samech vs Sin

First, Yiyashar cochachem for the prompt responses.
Second:  I will now have a bit of peace over yom tov from my congregant!

Chag Sameach,

HT

On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 2:30 PM Sholom Simon <sholom90 at gmail.com<mailto:sholom90 at gmail.com>> wrote:
And in Ha'aderes v'He'emuna, we have, at the place where a samech would be: siguy (with a samech) but segev (with a sin)

It seems spelling did change over time . . . e.g., the word Sota -- in Torah with a sin *Bamidbar 5:12, 5:29), in Talmud with a samech, which is why Rambam is insistent on using a sin, but (most?) everybody else used a samech.

But what I thought RHT was asking about was the *pattern* he saw, rather than simply a replacement of sin/samech.

On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 1:58 PM Akiva Miller via Mesorah <mesorah at lists.aishdas.org<mailto:mesorah at lists.aishdas.org>> wrote:
Same thing in Kel Adon and lots of other places, like last week's Al Chet - Sikur ayin and Siach sifsoseinu. I  once make a list of them, but I'm not home right now. If you want a project for yomtov afternoon,  just grab a few machzorim (don't forget kinos and selichos!) and go on a treasure hunt.

WHY and HOW this happened is far beyond me. These authors seem to have been geniuses at fancy Hebrew grammar -- I can't accept that these are rudimentary spelling errors. Maybe the "correct" spelling changed over time (like the yud that was added to David in Divrei Hayamim), but for such a great variety of words?

I'm confident that Rabbi Mandell will come along and enlighten us, but YomTov will be here soon, so I wanted to post this just in case.

Akiva Miller


On Sun, Oct 20, 2019, 1:37 PM Henry Topas via Mesorah <mesorah at lists.aishdas.org<mailto:mesorah at lists.aishdas.org>> wrote:
Moed Tov,

One of my congregants has asked me why in the sequence of this morning's hoshanot, phrases in the position of samech have been replaced with phrases beginning with the letter sin in the last 4 of the 7 beginning paragraphs and again in many of the later "Hoshana Rabba only" paragraphs?

Thank you and a Git Kvitel,

HT
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