[Mesorah] "P'nimiyus"

[elazar teitz]

     Davening, bentshing and leining are not customs, and the terms are
merely translations of their Hebrew names.  Minhagim which are not
universal do not, as a rule, have Hebrew names -- yahrzeit is, indeed, an
excellent example, as are ufruf, badeken, vachnacht, upsheren and others.

EMT


On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 3:47 PM, elazar teitz <emteitz at gmail.com> wrote:

>      The use of the pasuk "Kol atzmosy" as a remez to movement of the body
> during davening long antedates chasidus.  It appears in the Abudarham, and
> is cited in the RM"A in OC 48.
>
> EMT
>
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2018 at 3:09 PM, Mandel, Seth via Mesorah <
> mesorah at lists.aishdas.org> wrote:
>
>> I do not know any English speaker who would call shockeling "swaying."
>> Rocking, perhaps.
>>
>>
>> Rabbi Dr. Seth Mandel
>> Rabbinic Coordinator
>> The Orthodox Union
>>
>> Voice (212) 613-8330     Fax (212) 613-0718     e-mail mandels at ou.org
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Toby Katz <t613k at aol.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 6, 2018 2:44 PM
>> *To:* Mandel, Seth; micha at aishdas.org
>> *Cc:* mesorah at aishdas.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Mesorah] "P'nimiyus"
>>
>> In a message dated 6/6/2018 2:32:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>> mandels at ou.org writes:
>>
>> No. Swaying existed during davening, but not shockeling.
>>
>> The posuq, as you can see, does not define what action is being taken.
>> You must be able to realize that it is chasidim who use this posuq as a
>> "proof," but the posuq does not mean that at all.  Swaying would also meet
>> the description, as would any other action.
>>
>>
>> Rabbi Dr. Seth Mandel
>>
>>
>>
>>  >>>>>
>>
>> I am not sure what is the difference between swaying and shuckeling,
>> except perhaps the speed and extent of forward motion.
>>
>> Yes (sigh) I realize that Dovid Hamelech did not actually have shuckeling
>> in mind when  he wrote Tehillim, and probably did not have any movement in
>> mind at all.  But the way people use this pasuk suggests shuckeling is an
>> old thing.  Swaying, if you prefer.
>>
>>
>>
>> --Toby
>> *--Toby Katz*
>> *t613k at aol.com <t613k at aol.com>*
>>
>> *=============*
>>
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>>
>
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