[Mesorah] mishneh-kesef

[Danny Levy]

R' Seth,

In your example

עֵינֵי-כֹל אֵלֶיךָ יְשַׂבֵּרוּ, וְאַתָּה נוֹתֵן-לָהֶם אֶת-אָכְלָם בְּעִתּוֹ.

the g'aya on EInei-CHOL is understandable as a sort of Nasog Achor, but why
is it NOtein-laHEM rather than noTEIN-laHEM?  Not only do the words not
have adjacent stressed syllables, but long closed syllables such as TEIN
almost invariably have a ta'am or at least a g'aya.

There was a similar strange g'aya on words joined by a maqaf in last week's
parsha: vinYAmin-aKHIV (Gen 45:14) rather than vinyaMIN-aKHIV (although MIN
is not a long closed syllable).

Might the explanation be that when two words are joined by a maqaf, the
first one loses its stress as you wrote, and then it is able to receive a
g'aya if the new large word has a suitable syllable (in these cases a
g'aya qala on the open syllable) even if the result is totally foreign to
the word when not joined by a maqaf?

Danny Levy

2017-12-27 0:43 GMT+02:00 Mandel, Seth via Mesorah <
mesorah at lists.aishdas.org>:

> It still seems to me that the Rambam's description of what Chazal mean is
> the most authenic, and it is certainly the oldest.
>
> As all the nos'ei kelim noted, the Ra'avd's comment on the Rambam,
> although equally old, can teach us nothing. The Ra'avad made his comment on
> the background of his pronunciation.  Although it is easy for a linguist to
> see what the Ra'avad's pronunciation of Hebrew must have been like, it is
> nothing like any of the pronunciations we have today.
>
>
> Rabbi Dr. Seth Mandel
> Rabbinic Coordinator
> The Orthodox Union
>
> Voice (212) 613-8330     Fax (212) 613-0718     e-mail mandels at ou.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* elazar teitz <emteitz at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, December 25, 2017 10:24 PM
> *To:* Mandel, Seth; Micha Berger; mesorah at aishdas.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Mesorah] mishneh-kesef
>
> This is what the מנחת שי has to say about בכל-לבבך:
>
> כשאמרו  רז"ל שצריך לחתן ריוח בין הדבקים לא אמרו להפסיק שלא לתת מקף בין שני
> הלמדין כאשר הוא, שאם יקרא אותו בלי מקף יהיה נקוד בחולם, וזה לא אמרו רז"ל
> להחליף התנועות אשר נתנו    למשה מסיני *) אלא אף על פי שיקראם במקף יתן ריוח
> והבדל ביניהם שידמה כי שני למדין קרא (מכלול דף צ"ו וכן כל כיוצא בזה
>
> The footnote reads:
>
> עיין בספר הכוזרי מאמר ג סימן ל ובספר מסורת המסורה למדקדק הגדול ר' אלי'
> בחור וגם מטפחת ספרים להגאון מו"ה יעב"ץ ד"ה א"פ
>
> EMT
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 11:56 PM, Mandel, Seth via Mesorah <
> mesorah at lists.aishdas.org> wrote:
>
> The G'moro seems to be pretty clear when it says "revach bein had'vekim."
> The Rambam brings it the same way:
>
> *ב,ט*  כיצד מדקדק,ייזהר שלא ירפה החזק ולא יחזק הרפה ולא יניד הנח ולא יניח
> הנד.  לפיכך צריך ליתן ריוח בין כל שתי אותות הדומות שאחת מהן סוף תיבה והאחרת
> תחילת תיבה הסמוכה לה, כגון "בכל לבבך" קורא "בכל" ושוהה וחוזר וקורא "לבבך",
> וכן "ואבדתם מהרה", "הכנף פתיל".
> If you need something between the d'veqim, letters that "stick" together,
> one cannot pronounce them as one doubled letter.
>
> But this is a rule special for Q'S, apparently, derived from the
> requirement of "limmud tam," and so it may not necessarily apply to
> anything else.  The R'DaQ claims that it is not only QS, but anything, and
> QS was just a place to be more careful.  But the Masorah, in discussing two
> identical letters one after another in the word, implies that in some
> cases, one is "gol'lam yachad."
>
>
> Rabbi Dr. Seth Mandel
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, December 25, 2017 4:01 PM
> *To:* Mandel, Seth
> *Cc:* Michael Poppers; mesorah at aishdas.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Mesorah] mishneh-kesef
>
> On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 03:44:51PM +0000, Mandel, Seth via Mesorah wrote:
> : When words are connected with a maqqaf, the first word loses its stress
> : and its vowel may b changed, because it is now considered part of a
> : larger word. In some cases, there is a secondary stress on the first
> word;
> : in others there is not.
>
> Tangent, but very much halakhah lemaaseh:
>
> And in Shema, how many /l/ sounds do you make in "al-levavekha"?
> Do you say both lameds with a pause mid-teivah (I prefer that to
> modifying the meaning of the word "word"), or pronounce it like
> a lamed-degushah?
>
> Tir'u baTov!
> -Micha
>
> --
> Micha Berger             "I hear, then I forget; I see, then I remember;
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