[Mesorah] mis-accentuation (was: 'Tis Chanukka)

[Michael Poppers]

RSS replied to RDrAW:
> certainly, the tunes will be a strong force to perpetuate the
mis-accentuation ... a lot of is simply that one learns pronunciation, for
the most part, by what one hears (mimeticsm) <
I argue that the tune should be tweaked to fit the words, not vice versa;
but it would seem that *chazanim* disagree :).

RGD asked:
> anyone have a tune for shir hamaalos before bircas hamazon with
some/any/most of the words can be pronounced correctly? <
I do, but I don't use it very often :).

On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 9:25 AM, Sholom Simon via Mesorah <
mesorah at lists.aishdas.org> wrote:

> "mis-accentuation" -- what an awesome word!  Thanks!
>
> > > many places where people mispronounce ... a couple of places almost
>> everyone makes a mistake <
>> > C'mon, R'Seth, don't hold back -- tell us how you really feel :).
>>
>> Some (much?) of this can be blamed on the tunes we Ashqenazim use (at
>> least the ones I know).  Take the tunes for Hallel, for instance.
>>
>
> And the tunes of which you speak, presumably, were written by Ashqenazim.
> Compare, e.g., to the accenting on the words in the popular tune for D'ror
> Yikra.
>
> More to your point: certainly, the tunes will be a strong force to
> perpetuate the mis-accentuation.
>
> But a lot of is simply that one learns pronunciation, for the most part,
> by what one hears (mimeticsm).  I remember a long time ago when someone
> when I first learned that I pronounced everything wrong -- and he pointed
> me to standard siddurim, which have an accent mark on every word where the
> accent is _not_ on the last syllable (do all of them have it?  My Artscroll
> and my Chabad siddurim have it).  I was blown away.  There it is, in black
> and white for everybody to see where the accent should be, and almost
> everybody of Ashkenaniz persuasion ignores it (except some of those who
> have spend some formative years growing up in Israel).
>
> In any event, some of these tunes have *long lasting* power.  (Everybody
> knows the tune for Sh'ma -- written by a Austrian Reform cantor (Sulzer) in
> the mid-1800's (who, btw, I think was fairly machmir in making sure his
> music fit the accents!)).  But I digress . . .
>
> -- Sholom
>
>
>
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