[Mesorah] Mishtaleiach

[Michael Poppers]

R'Micha wrote:
> Hashelukhah, in the passive, doesn't say Who sent it. <
And "shenishtalchah" does?!  Aside from my thinking that "haYad," not "hayad," is the noun in that phrase, both verbs' respective voices seem passive IMHO.  Rather, I would note the distinction as RZS already outlined, as he quoted a private point of mine, I see two sides to the discussion on which form of ShLCH is appropriate.  In short, ...
> I don't see this as a biblical Hebrew issue. <
...I do, but perhaps not along the lines of "let's use Biblical rather than CHaZaLic language" (unless there was a desire to riff off the specific lashon used re the sa'ir in Seifer Vayiqra, specifically, 3-16:10). 

All the best from
--Michael Poppers via RIM pager


----- Original Message -----
From: Micha Berger [micha at aishdas.org]
Sent: 01/27/2010 09:45 PM EST
To: D&E-H Bannett <dbnet at zahav.net.il>
Cc: mesorah at lists.aishdas.org
Subject: Re: [Mesorah] Mishtaleiach



On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 03:18:42PM +0200, D&E-H Bannett wrote:
: The nusach shenishtalcha (not ha-nish...) was changed by R' 
: Yitzhak Satanov in his Vayetar Yitzhak to ha-shelucha.  He 
: and R' Zalman Henne were the major change-makers in the 
: 1700's in their attempt to improve the siddur by replacing 
: rabbinic Hebrew terms with biblical ones.

I don't see this as a biblical Hebrew issue. Rather, the question is
whether acknowledging G-d's role in the churban would sound like we're
dumping on Him mid-tefillah. Hashelukhah, in the passive, doesn't say
Who sent it.

My original thought was to relate the se'ir hamishtaleiach with that it
represents. The se'ir is often darshen-ed as representing the one who
could have been Lashem but made other choices. Thus, while the se'ir
didn't actually send itself, that which the se'ir represents does.

But it seems that I'm placing too much weight in assuming hitpa'el means
reflexive. Nu, that's why I asked this crew first.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             When memories exceed dreams,
micha at aishdas.org        The end is near.
http://www.aishdas.org                   - Rav Moshe Sherer
Fax: (270) 514-1507
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