[Mesorah] another grammar question

[Poppers, Michael]

> I am puzzled by your message, R' Michael.  Onkelos translates lomeis in 5-14:1 as "al mis", exactly as he does for l'meis in 5-26:14. <

The Miqraos G'dolos in my office translates "l'meis" as "l'mis," not "al mis."



> My knowledge of Aramaic is not great but does that not mean "for a dead person"? <

I would go with that as a translation for "al mis," yes.  Quite different from "l'mis."



> To me it seems that Onkelos supports my answer that both l'meis and lomeis mean the same. <

I look forward to a learned discussion of girsaos b'Onqelos :).

A gut'n Shabbos/Shabbas Shalom
and all the best from
Michael Poppers * Elizabeth, NJ, USA






From: Danny Levy [mailto:danestlev at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2010 8:29 AM
To: Poppers, Michael
Cc: Michael Hamm; mesorah at lists.aishdas.org
Subject: Re: [Mesorah] another grammar question

I am puzzled by your message, R' Michael.  Onkelos translates lomeis in 5-14:1 as "al mis", exactly as he does for l'meis in 5-26:14.  My knowledge of Aramaic is not great but does that not mean "for a dead person"?  So why do you understand Onkelos to be distinguishing the two?  I note that he translates hameis as "miso", for example in 2-21:36 and 5-25:5.  To me it seems that Onkelos supports my answer that both l'meis and lomeis mean the same.

I am less certain about my explanation that 'lo-' follows the same rules as 'vo-', as I have not found it it any sefer on grammar.  Can anyone else on the Mesorah list help with this one?

Danny
2010/8/26 Poppers, Michael <MPoppers at kayescholer.com<mailto:MPoppers at kayescholer.com>>

WADR, R'Danny, cannot "lawmeis" in 5-14:1 mean something entirely differently than either "lameis" or "l'meis"?  Onqelos apparently thought so.  Good argument to answer R'Michael's question the same way I did, but for a different reason :).  Thanks.


From: mesorah-bounces at lists.aishdas.org<mailto:mesorah-bounces at lists.aishdas.org> [mailto:mesorah-bounces at lists.aishdas.org<mailto:mesorah-bounces at lists.aishdas.org>] On Behalf Of Danny Levy
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 3:36 PM
To: Micha Berger
Cc: Michael Hamm; mesorah at lists.aishdas.org<mailto:mesorah at lists.aishdas.org>

Subject: Re: [Mesorah] another grammar question

It is not poor dikduk - see D'varim 14:1. R' Michael is correct - it is an indefinite article and means the same as l'meis.

As I understand it, just as vav hachibur can take a kamatz when the word is mil'eil and accented with a ta'am mafsik (see for example B'reshit 8:22), a prefix lamed can do the same, although such forms are rare.  Other examples include zeh lozeh and tzav lotzov kav lokov (Yeshaya 28:10).

Danny Levy



2010/8/26 Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org<mailto:micha at aishdas.org>>
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 02:08:47PM -0500, Michael Hamm wrote:
: On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org<mailto:micha at aishdas.org>> wrote:
: > On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 10:46:22AM -0500, Michael Hamm wrote:
: > : Someone leining Ki Savo said (26:14) "v'lo nasati mimenu lames", with
: > : an Ashkenazi kamatz (not a patach) under the lamed of "lames" instead
: > : of the proper sh'va.
: <snip>
: > "Lameis" means "to the deceased", as opposed to the pasuq really talking
: > about "to a deceased". No?

: Does it?  With a kamatz?
I think it does, as La- with a qamatz means that elsewhere. The fact that
it's poor diqduq to boot... Well, "I throwing the ball" means something,
despite the grammatical flaw.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

--
Micha Berger             Every second is a totally new world,
micha at aishdas.org<mailto:micha at aishdas.org>        and no moment is like any other.
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