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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>> </span>I
am puzzled by your message, R' Michael. Onkelos translates lomeis in
5-14:1 as "al mis", exactly as he does for l'meis in 5-26:14. <<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MPpermanentpen>The Miqraos G’dolos in my office translates “l’meis”
as “l’mis,” not “al mis.”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MPpermanentpen><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MPpermanentpen>> <span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black'>My knowledge of Aramaic is not great but does that not mean
"for a dead person"?</span> <<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MPpermanentpen>I would go with that as a translation for “al mis,”
yes. Quite different from “l’mis.”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MPpermanentpen><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MPpermanentpen>> <span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black'>To me it seems that Onkelos supports my answer that both
l'meis and lomeis mean the same.</span> <<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MPpermanentpen>I look forward to a learned discussion of girsaos b’Onqelos
<span style='font-family:Wingdings'>J</span>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#002060'>A
gut'n Shabbos/Shabbas Shalom<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#002060'>and
all the best from<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Monotype Corsiva";
color:#0070C0'>Michael Poppers</span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
"Cambria","serif";color:black'> * </span><span style='font-size:14.0pt;
font-family:"BusDev Gothic","sans-serif";color:#002060'>Elizabeth, NJ, USA</span><span
style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#002060'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MPpermanentpen><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MPpermanentpen><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Danny Levy
[mailto:danestlev@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 27, 2010 8:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Poppers, Michael<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Michael Hamm; mesorah@lists.aishdas.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mesorah] another grammar question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>I am puzzled by your message, R' Michael. Onkelos
translates lomeis in 5-14:1 as "al mis", exactly as he does for
l'meis in 5-26:14. My knowledge of Aramaic is not great but does that not
mean "for a dead person"? So why do you understand Onkelos to
be distinguishing the two? I note that he translates hameis as
"miso", for example in 2-21:36 and 5-25:5. To me it seems that
Onkelos supports my answer that both l'meis and lomeis mean the same.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>I am less certain about my explanation that 'lo-' follows
the same rules as 'vo-', as I have not found it it any sefer on grammar.
Can anyone else on the Mesorah list help with this one?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Danny<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>2010/8/26 Poppers, Michael <<a
href="mailto:MPoppers@kayescholer.com">MPoppers@kayescholer.com</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p>WADR, R’Danny, cannot “lawmeis” in 5-14:1 mean something
entirely differently than either “lameis” or
“l’meis”? Onqelos apparently thought so. Good
argument to answer R’Michael’s question the same way I did, but for
a different reason <span style='font-family:Wingdings'>J</span>. Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a
href="mailto:mesorah-bounces@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah-bounces@lists.aishdas.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:mesorah-bounces@lists.aishdas.org" target="_blank">mesorah-bounces@lists.aishdas.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Danny Levy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 26, 2010 3:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Micha Berger<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Michael Hamm; <a href="mailto:mesorah@lists.aishdas.org"
target="_blank">mesorah@lists.aishdas.org</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mesorah] another grammar question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>It
is not poor dikduk - see D'varim 14:1. R' Michael is correct - it is an
indefinite article and means the same as l'meis.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>As
I understand it, just as vav hachibur can take a kamatz when the word is
mil'eil and accented with a ta'am mafsik (see for example B'reshit 8:22), a
prefix lamed can do the same, although such forms are rare. Other
examples include zeh lozeh and tzav lotzov kav lokov (Yeshaya 28:10).<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Danny
Levy<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>2010/8/26
Micha Berger <<a href="mailto:micha@aishdas.org" target="_blank">micha@aishdas.org</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Thu,
Aug 26, 2010 at 02:08:47PM -0500, Michael Hamm wrote:<br>
: On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Micha Berger <<a
href="mailto:micha@aishdas.org" target="_blank">micha@aishdas.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
: > On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 10:46:22AM -0500, Michael Hamm wrote:<br>
: > : Someone leining Ki Savo said (26:14) "v'lo nasati mimenu
lames", with<br>
: > : an Ashkenazi kamatz (not a patach) under the lamed of
"lames" instead<br>
: > : of the proper sh'va.<br>
: <snip><br>
: > "Lameis" means "to the deceased", as opposed to the
pasuq really talking<br>
: > about "to a deceased". No?<br>
<br>
: Does it? With a kamatz?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I
think it does, as La- with a qamatz means that elsewhere. The fact that<br>
it's poor diqduq to boot... Well, "I throwing the ball" means
something,<br>
despite the grammatical flaw.<br>
<br>
Tir'u baTov!<br>
-Micha<br>
<span style='color:#888888'><br>
--<br>
Micha Berger Every second is a
totally new world,<br>
<a href="mailto:micha@aishdas.org" target="_blank">micha@aishdas.org</a>
and no moment is like any other.<br>
<a href="http://www.aishdas.org/" target="_blank">http://www.aishdas.org</a>
- Rabbi Chaim Vital<br>
Fax: (270) 514-1507</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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