[Avodah] Kalah NaAh VeChasudah - Midvar Sheker

[Micha Berger]

Rather than reply to RMGR directly, I was going to refer him to my 
source, R Yitzchak Berowitz's Center for Jewish Values and their mar'eh
meqomos booklets titled "Genveivas Da'as" and "Midevar Sheqer Tirchaq",
respectively. But it appears that since I was in a chubaurah learning
these sheets, all the booklets were bound into prined volumes and taken
offline.

What I can find while all my property is in a container was someone
from R Melameid, who summarizes (Liquim vol 2, 3:1, in "Hi' Geneivas
Daas) that there are two differences between these issurim:

1- Sheqer is a distortion of facts, while geneivas da'as is manipulating
   somoene to aid your relationship.
2- Sheqer can only be via obvert communication, while G"D would include
   behaving toward them in a misleading way.

Neither of these stuck in my memory from the CJV mar'eh meqomos sheets.

Most of the examples I gave were from the gemara, with the exception
of the Medrash explaining how, with the use of a comma, Yaaqov didn't
overly lie. Which gives us an interesting point of contrast: in the
case of Sarah's laughter, Hashem told half the truth. At the end of
Bereishis, the brothers tell Yoseif an outright fabrication. (Given
Chazal's assumption that Yaaqov didn't actually say such a thing in an
incident that isn't in the chumash.)

It is BM 87a, not me, that talks about leshanos es ha'emes mipenei
darkei Shalom but not to outright lie (if possible to achieve shalom
that way). As in the machloqes about keitzad meraqdin.

And is consistent with the aforementioned medras about Yaaqov, even if
there the primary benficiary of the peace was Yaaqov himself, and not
a third party.

> R Micha also posted - there are 2 issurim.
> geneivas da'as - Leaving out elements of the truth, or presenting the truth
> in a manner you know will be misunderstood.
> midevar sheqer tirchaq - since you knew what you meant and it was true.
> 
> Please expand upon these because I do not properly understand; re Midvar
> Shekker Tirchak - the Halacha, based on the Gemara Shavuos 31a, prohibits
> presenting oneself to intimidate a defendant thereby pushing him to admit
> the truth...

Sources that invoke midevar sheqer tirchaq in situations outside of court
or even anyone getting harmed altogether:
- Ritva, Kesuvos 17a "yashbichenu"
- Mordechai, end of MQ #933
- Chareidim ch. 4 mitzvah 26

- And maybe Rabbeinu Yonah, although Shaarei Tehuvah could be going
  lifinim mishuras hadin -- but see shaar 3, #178-186. He has a very
  long discussion of lies that aren't about harm.

It would seem that we learn things about court from the issur, but it
isn't necessarily so that the issur is limited to those applications.

An enlightening and enjoyable Chanukah!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 "I think, therefore I am." - Renne Descartes
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   "I am thought about, therefore I am -
Author: Widen Your Tent      my existence depends upon the thought of a
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF    Supreme Being Who thinks me." - R' SR Hirsch