[Avodah] Women Davening

[Chana Luntz]

RMB wrote:

<<You started by asking how I ignored OC 106 and looked only at 89. But
you're insisting on a read of siman 106 that would have him contradicting
what he wrote in 109. When there is really no reason to.

Or, to put it another way, if you take what you called RYME's limud zekhus
in 106 as his masqanah, it explains why he gives that masqanah earlier in
hilkhos tefillah.>>

The thing is, you see, nobody else seems to read the Aruch HaShulchan like
you do.  

>From a cursory search of the web:

https://thehalacha.com/wp-content/uploads/Vol12Issue15.pdf - : (Halachically
Speaking - Compiled by Rabbi Moishe Dovid Lebovits Reviewed by Rabbi Benzion
Schiffenbauer Shlita Edited by: Rabbi Chanoch Lev  - p8 "However, many
poskim say that women are obligated in Shacharis and Minchah. 47 47.
Shulchan Aruch Harav 106:2, Mishnah Berurah 106:4, Aruch Hashulchan ....)

https://rabbikaganoff.com/tag/women-and-maariv/ "According to Tosafos, who
contends that maariv is obligatory, a woman should be required to daven
maariv daily. This ruling is stated by the Aruch Hashulchan (106:7)."

https://www.nishmat.net/Uploads/files/R_Sperling_Davening_Time_is_Short.pdf
"The obligation to recite the evening Shmonah-Esrei is also a matter of
debate. There are opinions that obligate women to say the evening
Shmonah-Esrei - such as the Aruch HaShulchan (106,7) and ..."

https://torah.org/torah-portion/weekly-halacha-5772-vaera/ ..." 2. Most
authorities agree that women are not obligated to daven Ma'ariv, since
Ma'ariv was initially established as a voluntary prayer even for men, and
while eventually men accepted Ma'ariv as an obligation, women did not. A
minority opinion holds that women should daven Ma'ariv as well, see Aruch
ha-Shulchan 3.106:7"

https://etzion.org.il/en/halakha/studies-halakha/philosophy-halakha/women-an
d-prayer "There are other authorities who rule that women are obligated in
arvit as well (Arukh Ha-shulchan, Orach Chayyim 106:7)."

The point being, it is "known" in all the women's seminaries who of
necessity cover this topic - that the Aruch HaShulchan is the machmir one -
who even says three tefilot a day, ie even more machmir than the Mishna
Brura who only says two!  I "knew" that before I ever read the Aruch
HaShulchan inside (or was capable of it).   This is absolutely halacha
l'ma'ase and is being very, very widely taught.

So I guess I struggle to continue an argument when the pshat seems to me
quite simple - at least in OC 106, and OC 89 refers us to OC 106 - and where
it is would be weird to have the maskana at the beginning with his arguments
at the end.  So although 0C 89 is not so clear, it just, it seems to me,
needs to be read as - regarding this point, see later.   But even more
critically, not only does the pshat seem quite simple to me, but the Torah
Olam seems to agree with me.  All the learned rabbonim who summarise the
topic, all bring the Magen Avraham, all give some level of credence to the
Magen Avraham, but all understand the Aruch HaShulchan as disagreeing and
ruling absolutely that women are obligated in all three tefilot.

Now I confess I do understand what you are saying when you say:

<<(Aside from my general but admittedly very subjective impression from some
9 years of learning AhS Yomi that it doesn't fit his general style to find
limudei zekhus rather than either asking the tzibbur to change or assuming
we or the generations of rabbanim who watched us "must hold" something
else.)>>

Except, that I also think this is less much true (or almost never true) of
his view of women.  With a *male* tzibbur - absolutely, he understands that
generations of rabbonim watched over it and would not let it have gone wrong
so there must be a justification.  With women though, it seems to me he is
far more willing to see them as ignorant and not necessarily doing the right
thing and out of the proper oversight of rabbonim (not surprisingly, as
there are loads of references throughout the halacha to mutav yehihu
shogegin almost always in relation to women).  This seems to be just another
example.  

>-Micha

Regards

Chana