[Avodah] Women Davening

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 11:01:02PM -0000, Chana Luntz via Avodah wrote:
> > You started by asking how I ignored OC 106 and looked only at 89. But
> > you're insisting on a read of siman 106 that would have him contradicting
> > what he wrote in 89. When there is really no reason to.
...
> The thing is, you see, nobody else seems to read the Aruch HaShulchan like
> you do.  

It's interesting indeed, but again... the central motive for my read
isn't my instinct for how the AhS discusses cases where the widely
accepted pesaq isn't what he considers mistaveir -- it's that he tells
you in his introduction to hilkhos tefillah (OC 89:1 is the first se'if
on the topic) what his position is.

    ... ולפיכך נשים ועבדים חייבים בתפילה, לפי שהוא מצות עשה שלא הזמן
    גרמא. אלא חיוב מצוה זו כך הוא: שיהא אדם מתחנן ומתפלל בכל יום, ומגיד
    שבחו של הקדוש ברוך הוא, ואחר כך שואל צרכיו שהוא צריך להם בבקשה בתחינה,
    ואחר כך נותן שבח והודיה לה' על הטובה שהשפיע לו. כל אחד כפי כוחו. עד
    כאן לשון הרמב"ם.

And a translation, for thos of you reading the digest and therefore just
saq question-marks:
    ... And therefore women and slaves are obligated in tefillah,
    because it is a mitzvas asei this isn't caused by the time. But the
    obligation of this mitzvah is thus: that a person ask for grace and
    daven every day, and speaks HQBH's praises, and after that asks he
    needs.. then praise to Hashem. Each according to his ability....

And then he argues (se'if 5) that the Ramban's position about when
tefillah is deOraisa isn't relevent to this.

So we know where he has to end up when he discusses the sugya of women
and davening in depth. The only question I have is how.

I think people are taking RYME's problem with unserstanding how they could
be exempt from davening formal siddur liturgy as groiunds to pasqen they
aren't -- even when he himself did not.

This attitude toward pesaq, after all, is why so many more posqim treat
the MB as poseiq acharon than the AhS. They are giving the AhS a MB-esque
treatment.

But Monday Morning Quateracking aside, I admit I really do not have
a solid explanation how so many web pages have him concluding in 106
something other than the thumbnail sketch he gave in the opening outline
of the chiyuv. (The whole reason that's what I started with when I entered
the convesation.)


> Now I confess I do understand what you are saying when you say:

>> (Aside from my general but admittedly very subjective impression from some
>> 9 years of learning AhS Yomi that it doesn't fit his general style to find
>> limudei zekhus rather than either asking the tzibbur to change or assuming
>> we or the generations of rabbanim who watched us "must hold" something
>> else.)

> Except, that I also think this is less much true (or almost never true) of
> his view of women...

Since we're talking about my "feel" for how he works, all I can say it I
haven't noticed any such thing.


-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 "'When Adar enters, we increase our joy'
http://www.aishdas.org/asp    'Joy is nothing but Torah.'
Author: Widen Your Tent       'And whoever does more, he is praiseworthy.'"
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                   - Rav Dovid Lifshitz zt"l