[Avodah] R' Baruch Ber Leibovitch (Prof. Levine)

[Prof. Levine]

At 04:31 AM 4/15/2018, Marty Bluke wrote:
>R' Yitzchak Levine wrote:
>"In conclusion,  I think that what Rabbi Leibowitz
>wrote is irrelevant to today's world. I am
>surprised that you even bothered to quote him."
>
>And yet the overwhelming majority of the Charedi world agrees with 
>his teshuva.

If so, then how do you account for the many Chareidim here in the US 
who attend Touro College,  enroll in TTI (See https://goo.gl/hnRCy6 
), attend the training programs the Agudah sponsors both here in 
Brooklyn  and in Lakewood, as well as many other options 
available.  Many seminaries today offer programs leading to college 
degrees both here and in Israel.

My understanding is that more and more Chareidim, both men and 
women,  in EY are pursuing higher secular education.


>There is no question that the simple reading of the Rama is like R' 
>Baruch Ber. The Rama writes:
>
>"But it is not for a person to learn anything but Torah, Mishna and 
>Gemara and the halachic decisors that come after them and through 
>this they will acquire this world and the world to come. But not 
>with learning any other wisdoms. In any case, it is permitted to 
>learn through happenstance all other knowledge as long as it isn't a 
>book of heresy.  This is what called by the Rabbis a trip in the 
>Pardes, A person should not take a trip in the Pardes until he has 
>filled his belly with meat and wine [Torah] and he knows the lasw of 
>issur v'heter and the laws relating to mitzvos"
>
>The Rama clearly writes that secular studies cannot be learned on a 
>regular set basis. Not only that, but he writes that even 
>happenstance secular studies should only be done AFTER you know shas 
>and poskim.

Yet the GRA studied mathematics in his youth.

 From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_Isserles

Not only was Isserles a renowned Talmudic and 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halakha>legal scholar, he was also 
learned in <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah>Kabbalah, and 
studied <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History>history, 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomy>astronomy and 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy>philosophy. He taught that 
"the aim of man is to search for the cause and the meaning of things" 
("Torath ha-Olah" III., vii.). He also held that "it is permissible 
to now and then study secular wisdom, provided that this excludes 
works of heresy... and that one [first] knows what is permissible and 
forbidden, and the <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halakha>rules and 
the <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitzva>mitzvot" 
(<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shulkhan_Aruch>Shulkhan Aruch, 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoreh_De%27ah>Yoreh De'ah, 246, 4). 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maharshal>Maharshal reproached him for 
having based some of his decisions on 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle>Aristotle. His reply was 
that he studied <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_philosophy>Greek 
philosophy only from 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maimonides>Maimonides' 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guide_for_the_Perplexed>Guide for the 
Perplexed, and then only on 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat>Shabbat and 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_holidays>Yom Tov (holy days) - 
and furthermore, it is better to occupy oneself with philosophy than 
to err through <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah>Kabbalah 
(<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsa>Responsa No. 7).

>And how many people are capable of capable of learning "anything but 
>Torah, Mishna and Gemara and the halachic decisors that come after 
>them."   as I pointed out earlier the Meddrah in Koheles as well as 
>the Mishna Brurah make it clear that only a very small percentage of 
>people are capable of studying Torah all day.

Also, have not times changed since the time of the RAMA?

The following is taken from Rav Schwab on Chumash, Parshas Acharei Mos.

         "At all times the Torah's unchanging teachings must be applied to the
ever-changing derech eretz. All of our actions, attitudes, relationships to
man and beast, and positions within nature and history are subject to the
jurisdiction and evaluation of the Torah.

         "What follows is that the Torah scholar should be well informed of the
'ways of the Earth.' The laws of nature and the paths of history should
be known to him. He should be well aware of what happens in the
world that surrounds him, for he is constantly called upon to apply the
yardstick of halachah and the searchlight of hashkafah to the realities
that confront him.

         "What also follows is that the greater the wisdom of Torah, the more
crucial it is that this wisdom be conveyed to the Jewish contemporary
world. It must be transmitted in a language that our generation
understands and that will attract the searching youth, the ignorant, the
estranged and the potential ba 1al teshuvah to a joyous acceptance of the
yoke of Heaven. The Torah leader must be able to dispel the doubts
of the doubter and to counter the cynicism of the agnostic. He must,
therefore, speak their language masterfully so that he can convince and
enlighten them.

         "There is indeed a dire need for gedolei Torah, great Torah scholars,
who devote their entire lives to the study and dissemination of Torah.
The Jewish world today needs many talmidei chachamim whose life
task is to enlighten and inspire it with the love and the fear of G-d. We
are ready to accord to those 'messengers of G-d' the highest respect and
a loyal following. These are the kohanim and levi'im of today. Like the
members of the Levitic tribe of old, they are to serve all the other tribes
and teach them the living Torah.

         "Yet education and leadership cannot function in a vacuum. Therefore
it becomes mandatory for the present day 'Tribe of Levi' to initiate and
encourage an educational system that can serve the other "eleven tribes
who comprise the vast majority of our people. It becomes mandatory
for the Torah-conscious educator not to inspire fear of the world and
hesitancy to meets its challenges, but rather, to fortify the vast majority of
our youth to meet head-on the thousand and one pitfalls of professional
and business life. Our youth must be inspired to courageously and
intelligently brave the onslaught of scientific arrogance and the sensual
poison that is masked as intellectual liberalism.

         "The Divine purpose for which Yisrael was created can be served in
every capacity, in every profession, in all human endeavors, as long as
they are not excluded by the halachah."

YL


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