[Avodah] listening to governments and derabbanan

[Marty Bluke via Avodah]

What I see is the Ramban (Hasagah, Seifer haMitzvos, shores 1) telling
> Ramban puts it,
>     shelav zeh 'delo sasur' hu keshe'ar halavin shelaTorah
>     aval divreihem al zeh halav halav asmekhinhu samakh be'alma
>     lo sheyehei azhara kelal be'oso lav

> As I see it, the Ramban is saying that lo sasur gives them the power
> to legislate, but the specific legislation (oso lav) is only someikh on
> the pasuq.

> Which would keep derabbanan's out of the list of 613, but still mean that
> following them is a qiyum of lo sasur. A way to have the "asher qidishanu
> bemitzvosav" cake and eat it too.

The Ramban's problem with the Rambam is that if derabbanan's are based on
lo tasur then why the distinction between derabbanans and doraysas. With
your formulation that question still arises.

> Ad kan discussing the Ramban. Jumping back to discuss R MS haKohein:
...
>:                                         His point is that we as human
>: beings don't know Hashems will and therefore we can make mistakes when
>: making takanos. Because of that there is no intrinsic value in doing the
>: act that the Chachamim were mesaken, rather the value is in listening to
>: their words. Therefore if there is a safek there is no need to do the
>: action.

> I think he switches your cart and horse -- "efshar de'eiono misqabel el
> Retzon haBorei". Not that they miss His Will, but the Creator rejects
> their legislation.

If the creator rejects their legislation then it is isn't his will.