[Avodah] listening to governments and derabbanan

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Thu, Jun 16, 2016 at 11:47:01AM +0300, Marty Bluke wrote:
:> As I see it, the Ramban is saying that lo sasur gives them the power
:> to legislate, but the specific legislation (oso lav) is only someikh on
:> the pasuq.

:> Which would keep derabbanan's out of the list of 613, but still mean that
:> following them is a qiyum of lo sasur. A way to have the "asher qidishanu
:> bemitzvosav" cake and eat it too.

: The Ramban's problem with the Rambam is that if derabbanan's are based on
: lo tasur then why the distinction between derabbanans and doraysas. With
: your formulation that question still arises.

With a mitzvah de'oraisa, oso lav is deOraisa. We do not cook meat with
milk because of a derashah from a pasuq that is specifically about oso
lav -- basar bechalav.

With a mitzvah derabbanan, the authority to make and obligation to
obey the lav is de'oraisa but oso av once made is not. After all, HQBH
said lo sasur, not lo sevasheil owf bechalav. (Earlier version had
"bachaleiv imo", but mentioning bird milk seems too silly even for an
imaginary pasuq.)

I find the question cleanly -- and to my thinking, intuitively -- avoided.
AISI, my read of the Ramban is an intuitive take on the chiluq.

:> Ad kan discussing the Ramban. Jumping back to discuss R MS haKohein:
: ...
:>:                                         His point is that we as human
:>: beings don't know Hashems will and therefore we can make mistakes when
:>: making takanos. Because of that there is no intrinsic value in doing the
:>: act that the Chachamim were mesaken, rather the value is in listening to
:>: their words. Therefore if there is a safek there is no need to do the
:>: action.

:> I think he switches your cart and horse -- "efshar de'eiono misqabel el
:> Retzon haBorei". Not that they miss His Will, but the Creator rejects
:> their legislation.

: If the creator rejects their legislation then it is isn't his will.

As I said, cart-and-horse. The causality is that the rejection is being
offered "in response" (kevayakhol) to the law. Not that the law is to be
rejected because they failed to respond to His Will. Yes, whether A
causes B or B causes A, you still end up with both.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             What we do for ourselves dies with us.
micha at aishdas.org        What we do for others and the world,
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