[Avodah] malchei yisrael

[Zev Sero via Avodah]

On 03/10/2016 06:33 AM, Lisa Liel via Avodah wrote:
> On 3/10/2016 2:14 AM, saul newman via Avodah wrote:
>> please explain the halachic basis to allow breaking away from the
>> kingship of a scion of david melech yisrael...

> The only person who ever did that was Yeravam.

Yeravam didn't do it, the people did.  When they renounced Rechav`am's
rule they didn't even know Yerov`am was available.  Only after they were
already independent and looking for a king did they summon Yerov`am and
offer him the job.


On 03/10/2016 10:27 AM, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> Tangential but inevitable question, asked it more than once when learning
> Melachim A: Given who Yeravam was and what he did to the religion of
> Malkhus Yisrael, why did he get a navi (Rashi 13:1 repeats Chazal's
> shito that it was Edo) giving that hora'as sha'ah?

He had great potential.  He could have been someone special.  Even
after he sinned, Hashem made him an incredible offer: if he would only
return, he would not only be forgiven but would be elevated to the
greatest status: he would stroll in Gan Eden with Hashem and David!
He turned it down, but the fact that this offer was made shows how great
he was.  If only he hadn't turned to sin the Northern Kingdom would have
been a wonderful and holy place.


On 03/10/2016 10:37 AM, saul newman wrote:
> I  don't see where rZS' s gentile principle of the people deciding
> should hold any sway , anymore than if they decide to move shabbat to
> tuesday. There is no hetter for a non-Davidic line scion .

Where did you get that idea?   That a king's legitimacy derives entirely
from the people's recognition is not a gentile concept, it's halacha
pesuka.   The difference between a king and a bandit is public recognition,
as determined by whether his coinage circulates.  If people accept his
coinage it shows that whether they like him or not they recognise him as
a legitimate king; if they turn it down it shows that they regard him as
a mere bandit, so that's what he is.

Again, that is why we made such a big deal of accepting Hashem's
sovereignty every Rosh Hashana.  Because if we don't recognise Him as
our king then He isn't.  By definition He can't impose it on us.
And that's why only the future will He be "melech `al kol ha'aretz".

-- 
Zev Sero               All around myself I will wave the green willow
zev at sero.name          The myrtle and the palm and the citron for a week
                And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm doing that
                I'll say "It's a Jewish thing; if you have a few minutes
                I'll explain it to you".