[Avodah] De-Chokifying Arayos (including MZ)

via Avodah avodah at lists.aishdas.org
Tue Aug 4 11:24:43 PDT 2015


From: Kenneth Miller via Avodah  <avodah at lists.aishdas.org>

>> In RMB's second point, he  contrasts survival without sex and survival
without food. While it is true  that sex is not required for physical life,
psychologically it's a whole  different story, and that's the approach
the Torah uses for  Onah.

It seems to me that Onah may have the effect of  objectifying males. <<

Akiva Miller

To clarify what to some may seem a minor point:  sex  absolutely IS 
required for survival.  An individual can survive  without it, but the human 
species in general and Klal Yisrael in  particular cannot survive without 
reproduction.  Our nitzchius is  absolutely dependent on this particular activity, 
which is why "peru urevu"  is actually a mitzva and not "mutar if you wish."
It is Hashem's chessed that He made this activity intrinsically  
pleasurable. If you were a robot or an alien without human emotions  and you witnessed 
this human activity, you would wonder, "What the heck are  these humans 
doing?  And why?!"  I am not an expert on male physiology  but I am under the 
impression that for men, this activity is actually physically  impossible 
without pleasure. A woman can be "kekarka" as Esther Hamalka was  but a man 
cannot.  And for this reason, among others, the idea of  "objectifying men" is 
just ridiculous.
This reminds me of something else I wanted to say in response to some of  
RMB's posts.  He seems to be saying that if a man derives pleasure from  
being with his wife, he is ipso facto "objectifying" her.  But human beings  
derive pleasure from each other all the time, whether the pleasure is a  
stimulating conversation, "please scratch my back," playing with a delightful,  
cuddly baby -- I could go on and on -- and it is just absurd to think that if  
another person gives me some kind of pleasure, I have "objectified" that  
Not to forget the main point I wanted to make:  sex /is/ necessary for  
survival, and therefore some comparison to eating food /is/ valid.

--Toby  Katz
t613k at aol.com


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