[Avodah] De-Chokifying Arayos (including MZ)

Micha Berger via Avodah avodah at lists.aishdas.org
Tue Aug 4 11:57:30 PDT 2015

On Tue, Aug 04, 2015 at 02:24:43PM -0400, RnTK wrote:
: To clarify what to some may seem a minor point:  sex  absolutely IS 
: required for survival.  An individual can survive  without it, but the human 
: species in general and Klal Yisrael in  particular cannot survive without 
: reproduction...

The question is the difference in relationship a person to their hunger
compared to their sex drive. You appear to only be objecting to an
overly broad use of "required for survival" by not saying "individual's
survival", without touching the point that people relate to each desire
very differently.

(You also seem to ignore non-reproductive sex -- an infertile couple,
post-menapouse, etc...)

: This reminds me of something else I wanted to say in response to some of  
: RMB's posts.  He seems to be saying that if a man derives pleasure from  
: being with his wife, he is ipso facto "objectifying" her...

Pleasure is a positive thing, as long as it's not the only thing.
It's turning a wife into a cheftzah by which he obtains his pleasure
that is literally objectifying. If the husband is forced to think about
her perspective, his wife as a person, during relations, the risk of
the pursuit of pleasure taking over to that point, the mutual search
for pleasure is humanizing and bonding, quite the reverse.

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             If you're going through hell
micha at aishdas.org        keep going.
http://www.aishdas.org                   - Winston Churchill
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