[Avodah] Tachanun During Nissan

[Zev Sero via Avodah]

> 2) The Tur (Siman 493:3) states that the Talmidim of Rav Akiva
> stopped dying on Lag B'Omer.
>
> However, the Talmud (Yevamos 62b) clearly states that they died from
> Pesach all the way until Shavuos. If that is so, what then is the
> significance of the 33rd day of the Omer and why does the Tur write
> that they stopped dying on that day?

He does not say any such thing.  He says that *some* people have haircuts
from the 33rd day on, because *they say* that this is when the dying stopped.
The long list of rishonim who hold this cite a medrash that disagrees with
the gemara, and says the dying stopped 15 days before Shavuos.   The Tur
himself does not express an opinion on the matter.

> The Maharil writes, to explain this apparent discrepancy between the
> Talmud and the words of the Tur, that they died on all of the days
> between Pesach and Shavuos except on the days that we do not say
> Tachanun. These days are: 7 days of Pesach, 2 days of Rosh Chodesh
> Iyar, Rosh Chodesh Sivan, the 7 Shabbasos in sefira; 17 days in all.*

This is *not* a Maharil!  It's supposedly a Tosfos, I don't know where.
But there seem to be two versions of what this Tosfos says, which is why
it would be nice to see the original.   Mahari Ibn Shuaib (a talmid of
the Rashba, and the rebbe of the Tzeida Laderech) cites this Tosfos as
saying that the mourning takes place on 33 days during the Omer, because
there are 16 days when no mourning is appropriate.
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9416&pgnum=131

The Bach, however, cites "Acharonim" who cite this Tosfos as saying that
they didn't die on these 16 days.
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14268&pgnum=330



On 04/17/2015 04:47 PM, Prof. Levine via Avodah wrote:
> Note that according to the Maharil  tachanun was originally said
> during Nissan except for the days indicated!  I wonder when saying
> Tachanun during Nissan ended. YL

Not Tachanun. Techina, i.e. Kel Erech Apayim, Lamnatzeach Ya`ancha, etc.
According to minhag Ashkenaz these are said even on days when there is no
nefilas apayim, but not on Yomtov, Chol Hamoed, Shabbos, or Rosh Chodesh.


[Email #2. -micha]

On 04/17/2015 05:10 PM, Kenneth Miller via Avodah wrote:
> There's an error somewhere in that chain of quotes, namely Shabbos
> Chol Hamoed Pesach. The calculation should say "6 days of Pesach", or
> it should say "the 6 Shabbasos in sefira", but you can't have 7 in
> both of those.

Indeed, the Bach noters this and corrects it.

> In any case, I am very curious how the commemoration of this event
> ended up as 33 *somewhat* consecutive days, including Shabbos. If the
> talmidim really died only on the days cited, our procedure sounds
> like cheating, at least sort of. Granted that a commemoration does
> NOT have to follow all the details of the event being remembered, but
> this pushes the envelope on that, in my opinion.

Well, according to the Tosfos as Mahari ibn Shuaib quotes it, the common
interpretation of 33 days is *wrong*, and the correct minhag is to mourn
for 33 days during the sefirah, i.e. all days except Pesach, Shabbos,
and Rosh Chodesh. He does *not* say that they only died on these days.
The first place I've seen the idea that Tosfos says they only died on
those days is in the Bach. He sees it as justifying our mourning for
only 33 days, not 34, as we should if our source were the medrash that
the dying stopped 15 days before Shavuos. And since they only died on
33 days, our mourning period only lasts 33 days, including Shabbos, even
though (according to this view) they didn't die on Shabbos. How exactly
we mourn on Shabbos I'm not sure, but I assume the idea is that we do,
so we count it toward the 33 days.

-- 
Zev Sero
zev at sero.name