[Avodah] Rabbi Noach Isaac Oelbaum's Position on the Kosher Switch

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

Here's the current state of my understnading, to start the conversation
over by clearing the exchanges that got me there. Feel free to correct
any misunderstandings, or even points that needn't necessarily be as I
present them.

1- RSZA considers Zomet's Gerama Switch to be just that -- gerama,
and therefore assur derabanan except in special cases.

Randomly delayed changes to a circuit is, leshitaso, gerama.

2- KSTI considers their switch to be halachically different because
their version of the Gerama Switch then goes into a second randomizer
which determines whether or not it actually turns on or off your light.

They invoke the words "sefeik sefeika", which I don't understand, since
the random element is to insure an unknown delay, not a doubt about
whether or not the switch eventually turns the light on.

3- Those who hold like RSZA -- R Neuwirth (obviously), R' Nebenzahl, R'
Shternbuch -- gave the same ruling to the new switch.

4- Those who say this switch is gerama do not actually invoke the second
random element. I found nothing in
<http://www.kosherswitch.com/live/halacha/responsa> that wouldn't
apply to Zomet's switch. I see them as simply disagreeing with RSZA
and R' Yehoshua Neuwirth when they dealt with that question decades ago.

Which, given the stature of RSZA and the acceptance of Shemiras
Shabbos keHilhasah (and thus RYN), I don't think will get very far
in terms of communal acceptance.

5- The Machloqes between RSZA and R Chaim Zvi Shapiro (to pick
two representative names) appears to be over how to understand
the distinction between two statements by the Rama:
    334:22- Geram kibui is only allowed in special cases, and
    514:3-  You may put a cnandle next to an open window even in
	    a windy area.

RSZA distinguishes between whether the intent is kibui or not. RCZS
makes the chiluq between whether the maaseh is one of kibui.

But I still don't see how this makes the Kosher Switch not a maaseh kibui
that we would group it with open windows, not the normal geram kibui.

6- You can't take a candle outside to a windy area even when there
is no wind because of a gezeira atu not waiting for the wind to die
down. This is different than the window, because one is moving the candle
itself. Still, the Magein AvrahamA applies the gezeira to the window as
well -- inlike the Rama.

So my wondering about how the Kosher Switch isn't a maaseh kibui
means that I also have no idea why the switch wouldn't be covered by
the gezeira. And according to the MA, the gezeira definitely applies,
regardless.

If so, wouldn't you need the switch to be physically blocked when the
response could be immediately, and not merely warned off with a red light?

6- R' Oelbaum is against general usage, due to zilzul Shabbos. (To
my understanding, zilzul Shabbos means violating a shevus or
other deRabbanan, chilul Shabbos means deOraisa.)

According to <http://www.kosherswitch.com/live/?wpfb_dl=75> he explicitly
states "it is clear it is not a grama". So, my prior approach to figuring
out what he holds was pointless. Regardless of whether the person in YWN's
chatroom is his son or just someone pretending to be, ie whether that
text is likely to reflect the nuances of his position. And regardless
how one is medayeiq the difference between melakhah and zilzul, ie
whether he considers geram melakhah a melakhah or a shevus.

RNIO is in the same camp as R' Chaim Zvi Shapiro WRT the mechanics of
gerama, but with RSZA it all in practice.


But at least now my opening question has some kind of resolution:
No poseiq makes a point about how the switches differ, its a machloqes
about whether the switch is more like bringing a candle outside or
opening a window.

It may also be a machloqes about whether it's only geram kibui that
is limited to acts of kibui, or even other melakhos.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 12th day, which is
micha at aishdas.org        1 week and 5 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Hod sheb'Gevurah: What aspect of judgment
Fax: (270) 514-1507                  forces the "judge" into submission?