[Avodah] ADHD and Havinenu
zev at sero.name
Thu Mar 28 09:41:08 PDT 2013
On 28/03/2013 12:29 PM, Micha Berger wrote:
> But an example that takes us back to the siddur: "kulam ke'echad onim
> ve'omerim beyir'ah" in Birkhas Yotzer Or, nusach Ashkenaz.
> It could be read as
> 1- an idiom referring to one spoken declaration. Or as
> 2- "qedushah kulam ke'echad onim, ve'omerim beyir'ah 'Qadosh...'"
> Nusach Sepharad requires the latter, since they have an adjective which
> breaks the idiom, "kulam ke'echad onim be'eimah, veomerim beyir'ah
> Now, does that shed light on how to parse the Ashkenazi nusach? IOW, we
> might assume that Ashkenaz too has a comma between "kulam ke'echad onim"
> and "ve'omerim" because we treat nusach Sepharad as a paraalel. Or did the
> Ashkenazi nusach refrain from the "be'eimah" because it bedavqa wants a
> single idiom -- in contrast to Sepharad?
Yavo hakasuv hashlishi, or rather, yavo an ancestor of Ashkenaz: Italian
has "...besafa berura bin`ima uvikdusha, kulam ke'echad onim beyir`ah,
ve'omerim: kadosh...". If the current Nusach Ashkenaz version does indeed
descend from this one, then it would indicate that option #2 is intended.
OTOH, perhaps the Italian version was influenced by Nusach Sefarad, and
Nusach Ashkenaz deliberately has the order it does in order to go with
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