[Avodah] carrying an ID card on shabbat

Zev Sero zev at sero.name
Sat Mar 9 18:36:04 PST 2013

On 9/03/2013 7:25 PM, Micha Berger wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 08, 2013 at 03:49:10PM -0500, Zev Sero wrote:
>> >                                        First I made the argument you deal
>> >with, that the ID card can't be batel to the garment (unlike a Jew-patch
>> >which is, because it's just a bit of fabric).
> To which I asked about the shaatnez checker's plumba. Or extra buttons
> sown onto the garment.

Because they are insignificant; they're just part of the coat.

> Or, for that matter, why cloth is different.

Because the coat is made of cloth!

> AFAIK, a manufacturer's
> label or one from a shaatnez checker sans plumba is only batel because
> it was made an integral part of it with stitching.

No.  The Jew-badge, for instance, does not have to stitched on.

> Unlike something pinned on, like a non-ornamental key.

No.  A key is not batel to the garment it's pinned to, and never can be,
even if you stitched it on.   The only thing you can do is make it a
tachshit on its own (for women) or else make it an integral part of a
belt, and even this doesn't work lechol hade'os, but the minhag is to
be lenient.

>> RMB cited the case of gloves as one where me'ikar hadin we pasken that
>> there's no gezera of "shema yishlof", and it's only a chumra to attach
>> them to the coat.  He wants to say that the same applies to the ID card.

> Well, since the SA says that mei'iqar hadin "shema yishlof" doesn't
> apply to gloves, yes.

How do you get from A to B?  Why should its non-application to gloves
have any effect on its application to ID?

> And Shemiras Shabbos Kehilchasa says the same about a non-ornamental
> watch, explicitly stating that an ornamental one (which you would
> wear even if it weren't working) is under the original gezeirza, since
> it's a tachshit.

I haven't got the sefer, but I believe you have this backwards.

> Thus, there is reason to hold that the gezeira only includes those
> situations that the gozerim included, no more.

Again, *where* are you getting this notion from?

> What does an extra button sown into the inside of a garment do? It's
> neither batel-able nor enhance the garment (until removed for use). It's
> just an easy way not to lose it before you need it. RSZA says it's the
> permanent attachment. I don't see any of this other sevara in the SSK.

Is the sefer online anywhere?  Or can you upload a scan of the page in
question?  Because AFAIK if you regard the spare button as something that
you will use one day, and its attachment to the coat is "just an easy way
not to lose it before you need it" then you may *not* wear it no matter
how firmly it's attached.

Zev Sero               A citizen may not be required to offer a 'good and
zev at sero.name          substantial reason' why he should be permitted to
                        exercise his rights. The right's existence is all
                        the reason he needs.
                            - Judge Benson E. Legg, Woollard v. Sheridan

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