[Avodah] Mussaf After Minchah

Micha Berger micha at aishdas.org
Wed Feb 13 03:02:40 PST 2013

On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 10:06:26PM -0500, Moshe Y. Gluck wrote:
: As per the SA OC 286:4, someone who didn't daven Mussaf yet, and it's
: already past Minchah Ketanah, should daven Minchah first, and then daven
: Mussaf. Here's a question I've had a long time which I've never seen
: addressed. Someone who davens Nusach Ashkenaz says Shalom Rav at Minchah;
: here, where he says Minchah first, should he say Shalom Rav at Mussaf also?

According to the Rama OC 127:2 <http://j.mp/Z9S3KM>, Ashkenazim say
Shalom Rav whenever we mention duchaning with "EvE"A borkheinu..." which
is any time ra'ui for duchaning.

My 2c: So really, the default would have been "Shalom Rav", which was
nusach EY, and to accomodate those Ashk who came from Bavel, we use Sim
Shalom when duchaning -- as it echoes Birkhas Kohahim.

The Rama continues "Yeish maskhilim 'Sim Shalom'" for Shabbos Minchah
because there is leining.

RJJB writes on his blog at <http://thanbook.blogspot.com/2007/08/from-germany-to-poland-simshalomrav.html> that's it's an East European vs Germany

    According to the notes in [Siddur Eizor Eliyahu], western Ashkenaz
    said Sim Shalom at Shabbat Mincha, while Poland said Shalom Rav at
    Mincha. To quote the Rema (R' Moshe Isserles, Cracow, 16th century)
    in Orach Chaim 127: "We are accustomed to say at Shacharit 'Sim
    Shalom', and also every time we say 'Elokeinu ...' [the priestly
    blessing]. Otherwise we say 'Shalom rav'. Some say at Shabbat mincha,
    'Sim Shalom', because the paragraph includes 'in the light of Your
    Face you gave us...', which is the Torah, which is read on Shabbat

    Old siddurim of the Western Rite have Sim Shalom, old siddurim of the
    Polish rite have Shalom rav. Testimony from students of the Gra tells
    us that he himself davened Nusach Poland, whatever the modern siddurim
    in his name say to do. The editors of EE thus brought both versions
    at Shabbat Mincha - one as Nusach Germany, one as Nusach Poland.

    Many machzorim have Sim Shalom for Shabbat Mincha on Rosh Hashanah/Yom
    Kippur. I wonder if this is included as a survival of "Old Ashkenaz"
    as we also say "Oseh hashalom" at the conclusion of the bracha ...

See there, or maybe R' Jon (CC-ed) will reply with more info.

Tir'u baTov!

Micha Berger             Problems are not stop signs,
micha at aishdas.org        they are guidelines.
http://www.aishdas.org           - Robert H. Schuller
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