[Avodah] Bnot tzlafchad

[Liron Kopinsky]

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org> wrote:

> My thought which emphasized 36:12's "mimishpechos Menasheh" over pasuq
> 11's "livnei dodeihen", to say they married Menashites who would get
> territory from the promised land is in the Melekhes Machsheves.
>
> See the Haameiq Davar, who says that the whole "tena
> lanu achuza *besokh achei avinu*" was a request that they not get
> land Mei'eiver haYardein.
>
> Despite that story not happening yet when they approach MRAH in P'
> Pinechas. I have no answer.
>
> ...
> : > On a Brisker level, looking at halakhah to the exclusion of abstract
> : > notions of qedushah, the two lands are the same.
>
> : > I don't think Moshe Rabbeinu felt that way.
>
> Why not? MRAH complains about Re'uvein and Gad putting their cattle first,
> and makes sure they aren't skipping out on the war. Perhaps there was
> even a problem when they made the request, because they did so before
> the border was moved. But would half of shevet Menasheh be deprived of
> qedushas ha'aretz exactly because they had such a love of it?
>

I was referring to Moshe being in the land of Ever Layardein and still
wanting to enter EY and being told "no".


> Maybe Benos Tzelafchad's primary concern was bedavqa the mitzvos hateluyos
> baaretz.
>

At what point did the mitzvot kick in on the other side of the yarden? For
sure after Moshe's death, so maybe there is an intrinsic difference to the
Kedusha of the land before and after. Benot Tzelafchad, even living in the
same place where Moshe was standing, may have gotten what Moshe had wanted
and was denied. If their primary concern was the mitzvot and not a specific
request to not be ever layardein, as you suggested above, then I would
agree with you. But how do you reconcile the request to be specifically not
to be ever layardein and to then get exactly that? Would you suggest that
their request was based on assuming that ever layardein would not receive
full kedushat haaretz, but once that changed (through Rueven/Gad's
request?) they were ok to be on either side?


>
> : > 3- Perhaps this is even why He chose sheivet Menasheh in particular.
> : > Re'uvein and Gad choose the fertile plains over land in EY. Hashem then
> : > adds to them half a sheivet, thereby guaranteeing that the new sheivet
> : > won't lose ties to the original promised land, AND placing in their
> midst
> : > an influence which has such ties. Thinking out loud now, wouldn't it
> make
> : > the most sense, then, to choose the people who produced Benos
> Tzelafchad?
>
> : It would make sense to choose the other half of the tribe. Give them the
> : zechut to live in EY proper, and still maintain the family connection.
>
> Which, as I noted above, would justify not taking Menasheh altogether.
> The same logic that would ask why the more chovevei Tzion amongst
> Menasheh should suffer would ask why Menasheh over some other sheivet?


In more Yeshivish circles (i.e. non-Tziyoni, whatever that means) the
answer I have heard for why Menashe davka was that they were the talmidei
chachamim, and Moshe wanted to make sure that Reuven and Gad had proper
Morei Horaah. This approach seems to not need any specific chibbat tziyon
attributed to that Shevet. I have never heard it said that only the 1/2 of
Menashe that were ever layardein were TC. So if the whole tribe were
potentially fitting for the rabbinic role, why not allow those with a
greater affinity to the land to actually live there?


-- 
Liron Kopinsky
liron.kopinsky at gmail.com
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