[Avodah] Bnot tzlafchad

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 07:00:21PM +0300, Liron Kopinsky wrote:
: I was referring to Moshe being in the land of Ever Layardein and still
: wanting to enter EY and being told "no".

HQBH promised Moshe that he would never enter the promised land.

When Hashem said that, they had already left Qadeish Barneia, their
home for the past 19 years (just under), and were on the final move into
Israel. (See Bamidbar 13:25, 20:1 and Devarim 1:2.)

The southern border of Israel is described as being just south of Qadeish
Barnea (Bamidbar 34:4).

Rashi (Bamidbar 32:8) and Ramban (12:16, 20:1) assert there are two
cities of the same name, one at the sourthern tip of Israel, and the
other at which the Jews camped. And thus, Moshe never entered Israel.

IE and Seforno (20:1) have only one QB, placing it where the midbaros of
TRzin and Paran meet. These rishonim require some answer to what Hashem
meant by excluding Moshe from a land he was already in.

Balebatishly, I could suggest that HQBH told Moshe that he wouldn't
enter Israel from then on.

Or, we could say as RLK is intimating, that until kibush haaretz
there was no qedushas ha'aretz. Physically being in QB in Eretz
Kenaan isn't entering EY.

And if this is so, then the same is true of Eiver haYardein. MRAH
wasn't in Israel even when in Eiver haYardein simply because there
was no Israel for him to be in, yet.

: > Maybe Benos Tzelafchad's primary concern was bedavqa the mitzvos hateluyos
: > baaretz.

: At what point did the mitzvot kick in on the other side of the yarden? For
: sure after Moshe's death, so maybe there is an intrinsic difference to the
: Kedusha of the land before and after....

After the kibush of the mainland. Kedushah rishonah was al yedei kibush,
and the 2-1/2 shavatim weren't allowed to settle their land until after
Yehoshua's wars.

:               . But how do you reconcile the request to be specifically not
: to be ever layardein and to then get exactly that? ...

The Netziv, though, says they didn't -- their nachalah was in the
mainland. This is why they asked for nachalah among "achei avinu", in
EY proper, rather than the land just conquered and was just then being
promised to their grandfather's brothers' families.

Which is why I asked from P' Pinechas, because their first "besokh achei
avinu" was /before/ conquering Eiver haYardein. But the point being,
he overturns your assumption that Tzelfchad, had he lived, would have
gotten land from the other side of the Yardein.

I just found Bamidbar Rabba 21:12 (see also 14:6, 21:11) explicitly says
they got land on both sides of the Yardein. Yaaqov's berakhah to Yoseif
includes "banos tza'adah alei shur", and the wall that the banos are
walking on top of is taken to be the Yardein.

: In more Yeshivish circles (i.e. non-Tziyoni, whatever that means) the
: answer I have heard for why Menashe davka was that they were the talmidei
: chachamim, and Moshe wanted to make sure that Reuven and Gad had proper
: Morei Horaah. This approach seems to not need any specific chibbat tziyon
: attributed to that Shevet...

But that connection isn't mine, it's in the aforementioned Medrash Rabba.
They are introduced by their family line all the way up to Yoseif to
show that they were true daughters of the man who insisted they swear
to returns his bones to EY.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             The trick is learning to be passionate in one's
micha at aishdas.org        ideals, but compassionate to one's peers.
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