[Avodah] Translation of "Yayyin"

[Zev Sero]

On 21/06/2012 2:57 PM, Micha Berger wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 12:19:07PM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
>> On 6/06/2012 2:09 PM, Zvi Lampel wrote:
>>> Actually, I thought the translation preserves the ambiguity. The
>>> Hebrew reads, "v'no-hagim sheh-shofchim L'EE-BUDE HA-MAKKOS v'ein
>>> sho-sin o-som..... The translaton reads: "Traditionally, we do not
>>> partake of the poured wine, out of consideration for the losses caused
>>> by the plagues...."


>>                                                       that this is a
>> the plagues that happened to the Mitzrim!   All it says is that we
>> pour the makos out to waste, rather than keeping them.

> If the loss of a drop of wine is a makkah

NO!  Where are you getting this?  I didn't say anything about a loss!
The "makkos" here refers to *the spilled drops of wine*.


>, then ibud hamakkos is to

There is no "ibud hamakos".  It's "shofchin le'ibud, hamakos".  We
pour the makos down the drain (or in the midden, before modern plumbing).
This is poshut and obvious.


> OTOH, if you mean that the wine is the symbol of a makkah, then you've
> got:
>      And we are accustomed to spill IN ORDER TO LOSE THE SYMBOL OF THE
>      PLAGUE, and we do not drink them....

"Le'abed" does not mean "to lose", it means "to destroy".  Contrary
to what parents like to tell their children, "hame'abed mah shenosnin lo"
doesn't mean one who loses what he is given, but one who destroys it.
"Le'ibud" means "to destruction", or "to waste".  We spill the wine out
and waste it, rather than drinking it ch"v.



> In which case, we're saying the drop of wine is removed because it
> is something to be lost. Which to my mind wouldn't fit a symbol of
> "etzba E-lokim".

I don't understand you; why would you *want* to drink Hashem's punishment?
"Lo asim alecha"!  It's bad.  Poison.  Send it to the klipos where it
belongs.  (Some people used to have a custom to give it to a nochri
to drink...)


-- 
Zev Sero        "Natural resources are not finite in any meaningful
zev at sero.name    economic sense, mind-boggling though this assertion
                  may be. The stocks of them are not fixed but rather
		 are expanding through human ingenuity."
		                            - Julian Simon