[Avodah] Daas Torah Rerere...redux - Pesachim 112a

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 10:58:05AM -0500, Lisa Liel wrote:
>> Yes, knowing HOW to govern or WHO he is governing. Rashi uses a pair of
>> matching clauses -- milei degirsa and milei detzibura. It seems compelling
>> to me that he is comparing knowledge vs knowledge. Espesially since the
>> word in repetition ("milei") literally means "words of".

> On the contrary.  It means "things of".  Or "issues of".  Lomdus issues
> vs public issues.

That could well be the tanslation, but not "on the countrary" -- /mll/
is the shoresh and "words" is the primary meaning from which others
derive. Don't see how that changes the basic meaning of the phrase
or the masqanah. I don't see Rashi as giving an argument specific to
disqualifying a TC as mayor and not devalue his ability to advise a mayor.

On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 12:24:37PM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
>> Rashi uses a pair of matching clauses -- milei degirsa and milei detzibura.

> No, he doesn't.

>> It seems compelling
>> to me that he is comparing knowledge vs knowledge. Espesially since the
>> word in repetition ("milei") literally means "words of".

>  Turn that around.  Since he *doesn't* use the language you claim, your
> own logic shows that he means the actual work of administration.

You gave a converse, not a contrapositive, so while you defused my argument,
your counter-argument doesn't work.

But my bad memory aside, Rashi does write (cut-n-pasted from my OP):
    Ve'al tadur be'ir...:
        Detarud begirseih velo bemilei detzibura.

And I still see a parallel, and milei being thrown in to keep it a
parallel about topics, not activities.

On this topic, see Igeros haQodesh 8:2342 (14-Teves-5714)
<http://www.chabadlibrary.org/books/default.aspx?furl=/admur/ig/8/2342>
where the LR draws the distinction between Rashi: velo bemilei detzibura,
and Rashbam: velo tatid bemilei detzibura. And says he wishes to be
maqayim perush Rashi and not ch"v peirush Rashbam.

Mah beinaihu?

:-)BBii!
-Micha

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