[Avodah] Daas Torah Rerere...redux - Pesachim 112a

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 06:29:17PM -0400, Samuel Svarc wrote:
:> Yeah, when they pasqen. Not daas Torah. BK violated halakhah, not just
:> advice.
: 
: And Daas Torah today is not a psak? Do you think they dragged Bar
: Kochva into a BD and there was mishpat? ...

DT today is not pesaq, it's considered binding advice (more or less, depending
advice, but not a notion that this approach or that is actually assur,
using the kind of argument one sees in shu"t. Pesaq and mishpat are also
two different things.

...
: Detarud begirseih velo bemilei detzibura = He is busy with learning,
: not with civil administration. Your interpretation should have Rashi
: using other terms, e.g.  'bemilei deolam' = worldly matters....

If you agree that milei are words and ideas (from /mll/, to speak), as
in milei de'alma, or for that matter milei degirsa, then I don't know
why you think milei detzibura is hands-on rather than knowing the society.
Rashi is comparing what they take the time to learn.

I am saying that "milei de-" refers to knowledge. Being responsible for
them would mean something about words or speach, and thus advisory, not
implementation. A rosh ha'ir manages, not does.

The question is whether Rashi's version of R' Aqiva's words about the
mayor or town council would include being the man behind the mayor.

And RZS, BM 85a just says that R Zeira was so into acquiring the style
of learning in the Y-mi that among the things he fasted for was that he
not inherit R' Elazar ben Padas's job and "naflin iluyah milei detzibura".
not be responsible for milei detzibura like R' Elazar ben Padas. How does
that tell me what it means? Do we know whether REBP did or advised?
The only job I know of him having was that of R' Assi's amora.

...
: E.g. A city's TC will pasken that usage of the Internet by anyone
: under 40 who hasn't finished one round of Shas and Poskim is
: prohibited (yes, the usage of the ban on Kaballah is intentional).

: This is a clear psak...

I do not agree. He could make such a pesaq, using sources prohibiting
walking in areas where one is likely to stumble on causes of hirhurim. Or
if he were a Sanhedrin, he could make a taqanah. He could follow R'
Gershom and put all internet viewers into cheirem.

But you're blurring the line between iqar hadin and qadeish es atzmekha
bemah shemutar lakh. Halakhah is made with legal arguments, citing shas
and priori posqim, not with polemics from the podium.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 33rd day, which is
micha at aishdas.org        4 weeks and 5 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Hod sheb'Hod: LAG B'OMER - What is total
Fax: (270) 514-1507               submission to truth, and what results?