[Avodah] Any opinions on the kashrus of Peng Peng?

[hankman]

On 1/05/2012 9:47 AM, hankman wrote:
> You assume that all is mutar unless the Torah specifically forbids it. Is 
> that really so? Is it not just the opposite?

> If you look at Bereishis 1:29 and 8:3 we find that initially all would 
> have been asur to eat and thus the Torah needed to write the permit of 
> plants for Adam as food. Then the heter achila was expanded for Noach. The 
> Sifsei Chachomim explains that initially there was no reason to assume one 
> creation of G-d had any more "rights" than any other creation of G-d 
> therefore the explicit permission to use plants for food was necessary. 
> But after Noach, since it was through his mediation and effort that they 
> all survived the Mabul, Noach received the expanded heter. One may 
> therefore logically speculate that a new beriah that did not exist yet at 
> that time was not included in the heter to Noach and therefore remained 
> under the original isur to mankind for use as food.

R'nLL responded:
> I don't see that all would have been assur to eat.  On the contrary,
> nothing is forbidden -- ever -- without a prohibition.  Derekh eretz
> kadma l'Torah 26 dorot.  Hashem created all living things with a need to
> eat, so we eat.

Your response "that all would [not] have  been assur to eat" is but an 
assertion on your part and one that ignores the reiyah I provided that all 
was assur as shown by the need for the permission granted in Bereishis 1:29. 
Furthermore, of course "Hashem created all living things with a need to eat, 
so we eat," and that was why Hashem granted Adam permission to eat plants 
(which otherwise would have been assur).


> But after Noach, since it was through his mediation and effort that they ...
[See above.]

RZS responded:
> On the contrary, the same exact logic says that since this creature
> exists only through the efforts of man, we have the right to eat it.
> Besides which, Hashem permitted Noach to eat "all living things".
> Is this living?  Then it is permitted.

I hear your argument but the response is fairly obvious. While you are 
right - the logic is quite similar - but the difference is that with Noach 
the logic was put into force and made binding through a direct command from 
Hashem (Bereishis 8:23), whereas the extended logic to creatures "created" 
by man you suggest is not similarly supported by a direct command from G-d.

You further argue, 'Hashem permitted Noach to eat "all living things."' My 
response is this might mean "all living things" then existing. There was no 
provision to include future creatures (species) yet to come into existence. 
while my arguments may not have proven my point beyond a reasonable doubt, I 
think there is clearly enough room to at least raise the question without 
getting shut down with such certainty.

Kol Tuv
Chaim Manaster