[Avodah] Consumer Alert: Minhog Scams On The Rise!

[Zev Sero]

On 28/06/2011 5:04 PM, Micha Berger wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 03:57:00PM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:

>>>> There was a beis hamikdash, where open miracles were seen every day.

>>> So it's not about galus, it's about the absense of a beis hamiqdash?

>> That's what galus *is*.

> As I already said, 2 of the four galiuos (Bavel&  Yavan) were entirely
> during bayis sheini.

Huh?  Bavel was between the two Batim.  Yavan occupied the BHMK and
turned it into a pagan temple.


>>> If there were a neis during bayis sheini that lo ira qeri lekohein gadol
>>> bayom yakippurim, why did they did they need to keep him up all night?
>
>> Ein somchin al hanes.
>
> So people didn't go up to Yerushalayim because their wouldn't be any
> room? Pregnant women stayed away because of piquach nefesh? The continual
> nissim were there so that they could relied upon!

That's not relying on a nes.  Even without a nes there was no reason
not to go *up*; the nes was that nobody found it too crowded once they
got there, and decided to go camp outside the city.  And pregnant women
routinely go everywhere even today; they don't avoid leaving home for
fear that an emergency will suddenly happen!  And yes, occasionally
emergencies do happen, and babies are lost; the nes was that this never
happened in the BHMK.  Etc.  One can't rely on a ness, but that doesn't
mean they don't happen.  



>>>> Open miracles are not non-existent during galus, they're just rare.
>>>> Tzadikim are not personally in galus...
>
>>> I didn't think people were in galus. I thought galus was a state the
>>> Shechinah was in, which results in historical effects like the diaspora.
>
>> On the contrary, galus is what happens to us.  That the Shechina also
>> goes into galus is "`imo anochi batzarah".  "Galu levavel, Shechina
>> `imahem", not vice versa.
>
> Golah and galus aren't the same thing. Again, see bayis sheini.

Golah means the people who are outside EY.  But what's that got to do
with it?  The whole concept of "galus hashchina" comes from "galu
levavel shchina imahem".



> There are miracle stories of R' Chanina ben Dosa and R' Pinchas b Yair,
> and numerous others of Chazal. You're now positing that such people
> aren't in galus, and therefore assuming those midrashim refer to nisim
> is as rational as assuming the story is mashal. Do I understand correctly?

It has never occurred to me that there exist frum Jews who don't believe
that the story of R Chanina ben Dosa happened.

-- 
Zev Sero        If they use these guns against us once, at that moment
zev at sero.name   the Oslo Accord will be annulled and the IDF will
                 return to all the places that have been given to them.
		                            - Yitzchak Rabin