[Avodah] Consumer Alert: Minhog Scams On The Rise!

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 03:57:00PM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
>>> There was a beis hamikdash, where open miracles were seen every day.

>> So it's not about galus, it's about the absense of a beis hamiqdash?

> That's what galus *is*.

As I already said, 2 of the four galiuos (Bavel & Yavan) were entirely
during bayis sheini. So, I cannot see how the lack of BHMQ defines
galus.

>> In any case, which daily miracles happened in bayis sheini?

> Presumably the ones listed in Pirkei Avos.

I think that's only bayis rishon. Thus the common girsa is "10 nissim
na'asu la'avoseinu beVHMQ".

OTOH, I did find examples of nissim during bayis sheini: the ner maaravi
stayed lit until the death of R' Yishmael Kohein Gadol; 40 years before
the churban the tolaas shani stopped turning white on Yom Kippur.

>> If there were a neis during bayis sheini that lo ira qeri lekohein gadol
>> bayom yakippurim, why did they did they need to keep him up all night?

> Ein somchin al hanes.

So people didn't go up to Yerushalayim because their wouldn't be any
room? Pregnant women stayed away because of piquach nefesh? The continual
nissim were there so that they could relied upon!

>>> Open miracles are not non-existent during galus, they're just rare.
>>> Tzadikim are not personally in galus...

>> I didn't think people were in galus. I thought galus was a state the
>> Shechinah was in, which results in historical effects like the diaspora.

> On the contrary, galus is what happens to us.  That the Shechina also
> goes into galus is "`imo anochi batzarah".  "Galu levavel, Shechina
> `imahem", not vice versa.

Golah and galus aren't the same thing. Again, see bayis sheini.

We're drifting from the original topic without resolving it... 

There are miracle stories of R' Chanina ben Dosa and R' Pinchas b Yair,
and numerous others of Chazal. You're now positing that such people
aren't in galus, and therefore assuming those midrashim refer to nisim
is as rational as assuming the story is mashal. Do I understand correctly?

(Personally, I think wondering about the historicity of these stories is
simply off topic...)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             I long to accomplish a great and noble task,
micha at aishdas.org        but it is my chief duty to accomplish small
http://www.aishdas.org   tasks as if they were great and noble.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                              - Helen Keller