[Avodah] Moshe Rabeinu and his family

[Eliyahu Grossman]

Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 16:36:10 -0500
From: Zev Sero <zev at sero.name>

> On 9/03/2011 3:24 PM, Eliyahu Grossman wrote:
>> I had responded because of the answer that was given:
>> 	" He grew up in his parents' house for two years; by the time he
>> went back to Bat Par`o he was old enough to have started forming memories,
>> and would remember them."

>> Nowhere does it say that in the text, and I stand by that.

Zev answered:
> It certainly does.

Zev, please point to where in the text it says "two years", rather than
(A) the Midrash that says "2 years", or (B) inferring that 2-years is
fine because it's reasonable..

I say it isn't in the Torah and you say it is, which is inaccurate,
since it is clear that your use of 2-years is being inferred because it
is reasonable, or is linked to a Midrash.

That is the first point, that I do not want to digress from: It is not
about what is inferred, reasonable, or Aggadic (all of which are valid
forms of interpretation), but whether it is in the text, which is the
main point.

The second part, which is a continuation, is that you say that "he grew
up in his parent's house" is also in the text. I say that it is not,
and it is clear that this too is being inferred, even though it is a
reasonable point of view.

And so the position of "It certainly does" fails to hold up upon
examination.

The entire point of this argument was that while it is perfectly
acceptable to infer, my position was simply to present that when inferring
and using Midrash, using phrases like "according to a Midrash" or "from
my perspective" are very helpful in providing clarity, lest someone
believe that it's in the actual text (something that I have taken issue
with on more than one occasion with more than one ganenet!). And while
this discussion has digressed to prove reasonableness, the fact is that
"Nowhere does it say that in the text", as I wrote earlier, is perfectly
true, denials notwithstanding.

Now, I do agree that we have conflicting positions on something that
is not in the text, which is fine. I can see where both sides have
validity. And if the original questioner had come to me and asked for
my opinion, I might has stated it like this:

"According to Midrash Rabbah Shemot 1:26, '[The mother] nursed [Moses]
for only 24 months...and Bat Pharaoh used to kiss him and hug him, loving
him as if he were her own son and would not allow him out of the King's
palace', and so we see that there is a position that he was raised in
the palace, since the phrase "and he/she brought him/her to..." is often
used in the Tanach to express a change in position/authority (Berashit
24:67 immediately comes to mind). Therefore, it is reasonable to infer
from this that for short amounts of time for a couple of years, while
she visited the child several times a day, that the mother of Moses may
have had some impact upon him."

It's ok for me to say that because I point out sources, instead of
simply saying "The Torah states that Moses grew up in Pharaoh's palace",
because it doesn't, even though it is a reasonable assumption to make, and
shorter to say "The Torah says that baby Moses was raised in the Palace".

Sound reasonable? ;)


[EMail #2. -micha]

Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 18:53:23 +0100
From: Arie Folger <arie.folger at gmail.com>

RB wrote:
> After he was an infant, how did Moshe Rabeinu know who his family was?
> We know his sister watched our for him, and was picked up by Bat Pharoa,
> but did Bat Pharoa know that the one who nursed Moshe was his Mother?
> Did she relay this information and/or keep Moshe in touch with his family
> after Moshe grew up in the KIing's Palace?  Or did Moshe find out some
> other way who his family was? and if so, how???

RAF Answered:
> Is that not wonderful evidence for 'Hazal's contention that Bitia (NOT
> BATYA, ain't no such name - check your Chronicles) was a ba'alat
> teshuvah? She turned on her father's policies by saving Moshe, which,
> according to some, was even opposed by her maidservants, whom she
> immediately overrode. So it stands to reason that she continued on
> that path.

Yes, the Bavli (Sotah 12b) mentions that the Angel Gabriel beat the
maid servants to death so that they could not speak against her. It does
have some interesting ramifications! As for being a "ba'alat teshuvah,
I don't believe that this would really be a fit title for a non-Jew (Bat
Noach?), although I could be mistaken. Now, while it may sound reasonable
to assume that this priestess opposed the god of Egypt (her father) and
continued on THAT path, it is also equally reasonable to assume that if
she survived (once the child is given to her, we read nothing more of
her), then her survival is evidence that the King was either ignorant
of what was going on, or that she kept it private, if she did it at all,
or if she survived. I too would prefer that she did the right thing and
lived (married a nice Jewish butcher, raised some kids, etc.)!

As far as my use of the name "Batya", it is based on Midrash Rabbah
Vayikra 1:3 (and since I was already speaking of Midrash, I didn't
elaborate) where it explains that the name bet-tav-yud-heh is really
2 words, "baht yah", as a daughter of HQBH. (I have a grandson named
B'nayah, the male version! :D). And while Chronicles (Divrei Hayomim)
will often mangle and change names altogether, it is apparently a source
for calling her Bitya as well! In the Aruch HaShulchan, Rabbi Yehiel
Mikhel Epstein wrote that while there is a common practice to call the
daughter of Pharaoh Batyah, one should call her Bityah, reasoning that
because it is in Divrei Hayomim-A 4:18, as Bityah, then that should be
the name.

I still write Batyah! :D

Eliyahu Grossman
Efrat, Israel