[Avodah] Non-Jews Begin to Embrace Ketubah Wedding

[Zev Sero]

On 16/02/2011 11:49 AM, Micha Berger wrote:

> But that's not payment, that's qinyan sudar. The *iqqar* is the chasan
> giving it, not the other way around.

What is a kinyan sudar?  It's consideration for a contract.  A contract
without consideration is not binding, so if a contract benefits only one
party, the other party must give something in return.  In civil law this
is usually "one dollar and other valuable consideration", or some similar
formula; in halacha it's a physical object, classically a handkerchief,
and nowadays often a pen or a gartel.  There's no reason it can't be a
ring.


> That said, among those O rabbis I know who preside over weddings where
> the man gets a ring, all of my contacts require the ring be given
> elsewhere.  If her ring is given as part of an exchange, it risks
> requiring the net value increase for the bride to be shaveh perutah.

That's only if both rings are given during the kidushin ceremony, or
could be mistaken as being so given.  If it's made clear to all that
this is not the case then there shouldn't be a problem.  After all,
if you add up everything he gives her and everything she gives him
you may very often find that she's giving more, but that isn't a
problem because all those gifts are not for kidushin.


> Typically they would tell the kallah to give the ring in
> the yichud room, so as to separate the qinyanim on the respective rings.

The one such ceremony I witnessed (in both senses of the word) went
like this:  After he gave her the ring and said "harei at" the rabbi
announced "mazel tov, the couple are now finally engaged", and gave
a little explanation of the difference between kiddushin and nisu'in,
announcing that the nisu'in would take place in 10 minutes or so.
Then he announced that the couple would be exchanging ketubot (yes,
that was another whole story, but a formula was found which passed
halachic muster), and the groom gave the kallah her (real) ketuba,
and then she gave him the ring, saying something like "harei ata
mechuyav li, betabaat zu, al kol ma shekatuv bishtar zeh".  (Actually
the kinyan had already been made with that ring before the ketuba was
signed, but it was returned to the bride so she could formally give
it to him under the chupah.)



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Zev Sero                      The trouble with socialism is that you
zev at sero.name                 eventually run out of other people’s money
                                                      - Margaret Thatcher