[Avodah] Who First Said It? 6

[Zev Sero]

rabbirichwolpoe at gmail.com wrote:

>> «Since when is there a difference between Pesach itself and Erev Pesach
>> after the 4th hour? »

> See RT below


>> «The Ramo in 462:4 and 463:2 says we can't eat
>> matza ashira.  Where would you get a heter to do so on Erev Pesach?

> Well we know from Tosafos in arvei p'sachim that Rabbeinu Tam ate
> matza asheera for s'udah shishis when erev Pesach was shabbos - right
> up until the 10th hour

So who says he didn't eat matza ashira all through Pesach?


>> Where would you get a heter to do so on Erev Pesach?»

> Aderabba where do YOU get the issur on erev pesach before the 10th hour? 

> NB: As the Noda Beehudah notes you can't being a raya from Pesach
> re: erev Pesach!

Where is this Noda Biyhuda?  And what makes you think it's not his own
chiddush, i.e. that he wasn't the first to say a heter?


> Rema only is dealing with Passover itself

Says who?  Where does one derive such a difference?  Not from the Ramo!


>  Whiel  as per Tosafos itself and m'chabeir - it IS assur erev pesach
> from 10th hour onwards.

Of course the mechaber says so -- he allows it during Pesach too!  And
I see no reason to suppose the Tosfos didn't do the same.  But we don't
allow it on Pesach, so the burden shifts to you to show that it is
permitted on Erev Pesach (before the 10th hour).


> See SA 471:2 matzah ashira is assur from 10th hour - bei'uur Hagolah 5
> quotes Rosh as mKchabeir's source

Nu, so who says the Rosh didn't allow it during Pesach?


> Here Rema makes no objection He's silent WRT matzah ashira. Why assume
> that he should he differ from RT?

Because he already said it twice.  Does he have to keep on saying it
every time it comes up?  He takes it for granted that you will know
that we can't eat it at that time, but for a side reason.  This siman
deals with the issur of matzah on Erev Pesach, and for that purpose
matza ashira doesn't count; so the Ramo doesn't disagree with the heter
here.  But it's not allowed for a completely different reason, which
he already gave elsewhere.


> So again - who is the first to extend that Issur to the 4th Hour

Aderaba, you show me who is the first to *permit* it at that time,
after it became the practise to asser it on Pesach.


-- 
Zev Sero                      The trouble with socialism is that you
zev at sero.name                 eventually run out of other people’s money
                                                     - Margaret Thatcher