[Avodah] Who said it first? 2

[Saul Mashbaum]

RRW, on the son saying the "mah nistana"
>>>

Adderabba the simple read of the mishneh

   [Kan or kein] the son asks and if the son lacks da'as THEN the father
   teaches him "mah mishtaneh halayla hazah ..."

At no point is there any evidence in Rambam Rashi Rashbam [or other
rishonim AFAIK] that the formula was said by the child

Rather the son was prodded to ask

And if the son failed to ask he was then taught the mah nishtaneh by
the father!

>>>

See the Malbim on this passage in the Hagaddah where he says just what RRW
is saying.


http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=10814&st=&pgnum=14&hilite=

Very free partial translation:

(What the rabbis say) "The seder plate is removed so that the children
should ask" does not mean to say so that they should ask these questions
(ie, the "mah nishtana")  but that they should ask whatever they are moved
to ask (see Tosafot Psachim 115b at the end, dibbur hamatchil  'k'dei"
).Each child asks according to his intelligence and understanding... But the
fixed text ("nusach") "mah nishtana", if the son is not wise enough to ask
by himself, HIS FATHER TEACHES HIM.
And the rabbis instituted that THE ADULTS say this text before telling the
story of the exodus,...because by mentioning these differences the story
will be told from the very beginning with profound emotion....

Please follow the link to see exactly how the Malbim puts it

Saul Mashbaum.
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