[Avodah] saying kaddish together

[Elazar M. Teitz]

RZev Sero wrote:
> Since when are 9 listeners, or any listeners at all, required for
> kaddish? AFAIK they are only required for chazarat hashatz.

RMicha Berger responded:
> ... and for a davar shebiqdushah -- including Qaddish, Barekhu, Qedushah,
> Barukh Sheim recited out loud YK night, etc...

RZS:
> Where is this found?

RMB:
> Megillah 23b

> Tur, OCh 55 lists devarim shebiqdushah.

Both the g'mara and Orach Chaim require the presence of ten adult
Jewish males. Neither requires listeners. Unlike chazaras hashatz,
which requires that at least nine people be listening to the b'rachos,
and if not, those b'rachos are close to being l'vatala (OC 124:4),
no such listening requirement is mentioned for d'varim shebik'dusha
in general, where according to one opinion, one (or more) of those in
attendance can be sleeping, and still count towards the necessary quorum.

RMB continued:
> I added Shema on YK night because it too is an out loud "barukh sheim
> kevod malkhuso..."

Why is classification of a davar shebik'dusha dependent on the volume
with which it is said? One who is davening alone cannot say Bor'chu,
even if he does so in the same undertone with which we normally say
Boruch Sheim. By the same token, one davening biychidus on YK is not
enjoined from saying Boruch Sheim aloud.

 
Rabbi Rich Wolpoe writes:
> ... the "yekke" model [which was the ashkenaz model until about 200
> years ago] (of only one person saying kaddish -- EMT) shomeia k'oneh
> works and probably best for the hiyyuv who is not saying to listen
> with kavvanah to be yotzei

To be yotzei what? The "chiyuv" is not an obligation to say kaddish;
it is to say it _for the tzibbur_, and more specifically, to be the one
to elicit the response of "Y'hei sh'mei rabba" from the tzibbur. Shomeia
k'oneh and kavvana to be yotzei are meaningless in this context.

EMT