[Avodah] Kosher

[Zev Sero]

Micha Berger wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 02, 2009, RRW <rabbirichwolpoe at gmail.com> wrote:
>: When you buy uncertified products, there may be an entire slew of
>: "bittuls" that may be genuinely relied upon.
>: But when one certifies a product, lechatchilah's take over [EG ein
>: mevatlin afilu issur derabbanan lechatchila]

> I find the words "lechatkhilah" and "bedi'eved" (or bedi'avad) here to
> be confusing. 
> When dealing with bitul, there is only bitul bedi'eved. This includes
> anything made by a non-Jew, since he has no "lechatkhilah", and thus we
> only get the taaroves after it exists.

If he is making it without a hechsher, for the goyishe market, then it's
bediavad.  But if you give the product a hechsher *before* it's made,
then it's lechatchila.  You can't rely on the fact that it *will have*
become batel by the time the consumer buys it.

As for bitul by a goy, the Rashbo holds that his bitul is lechatchila
and therefore the food is forbidden.  The Noda Biyhuda holds that the
Rambam regards it as bediavad and permits it, and paskens like the Rambam.

See http://tinyurl.com/ygqsxbg

martin brody wrote:
> True, but it is bdi eved regarding the utensils.
> Rav Moshe trust the company regarding the vegetable oil.

He allows a rov to trust a letter from the company specifically stating
that all oil used in the product is from vegetable origin.  He neither
says nor implies anything about relying on ingredient lists.

> What products bother you regarding factory bishul akum? You've never 
> heard of anyone? Rav Moshe says it's OK.

Where does he say this?

[The other RMB pointed us to IM 1:55 twice now. Once on Areivim,
and repeated here. -micha]

-- 
Zev Sero                      The trouble with socialism is that you
zev at sero.name                 eventually run out of other people’s money
                                                     - Margaret Thatcher