[Avodah] Yom Tov Sheni for Olim LeReget to the Beit Mikdash

[Zev Sero]

rabbirichwolpoe at gmail.com wrote:
> Micha:
>> Rabban Gamliel insisted on a particular date for Yom Kippur
> 
> RZS:
>> No, he didn't.  Where do you get the idea that he had any preference
>> for one date over another?  He was mekadesh the month according to
>> the eidim that came before him, because he believed they were telling
>> the truth.

> Bartenura RH 2:8

In that case, please read it again.  He doesn't say anything like
that.  In fact he says exactly what I did, which isn't surprising
since that's where I looked before I wrote the post to which you
are responding.


>> Ela sheyada Rabban Gamliel becheshbono sheb'oso halaylah she'amru
>> ho'eidim shrau'ha... Lefichach qibbeil Eidussan"
> 
> Mashma he would have NOT been meqabbel sans the Cheshbon
> I assume Bartenura culled this from Shas

Yes.  Had his cheshbon shown that the eidim must be lying, he
wouldn't have accepted them; since he believed it was possible that
they were telling the truth, and he had no reason to suspect them
of lying, he accepted them.  This shows that he did *not* have a
preference for a particular outcome, but rather he was following
the evidence wherever it took him, and indeed felt obliged to do so.


> RZS:
>> Do you mean to suggest that in Rav's time they *never* said a bracha
>> on Hallel, even when it's definitely an obligation? How could they
>> *not* say a bracha on it then?
> 
> Too long for a post.  Many brachos on Mitzvos were late

Such as?  And what is the evidence for that?  Surely the brochos were
instituted by Anshei Knesses Hagedoloh, weren't they?


> In fact the bracha ligmor es hahallel pre-supposes the pre-existence of
> an incomplete Hallel! [Except as per shibolei haleqet's ambiguity here]
> [...]
> If hallel as full with a brachah on day one the nusach "ligmor" is kinda
> meaningless. What other Hallel was there before Rav coming to Bavel?
> 
> Unless you say there WAS an older nusach that morphed

"Ligmor" as opposed to "likro" is a minhag; everyone agrees that one
is yotzei with "likro", which is why we Ashkenazim say it all the time.
Therefore what makes most sense to me is that the original bracha was
"likro", but later a minhag developed to say "ligmor" when full hallel
is said in order to distinguish it from the occasions when only half
hallel is said.


> And If RT's raya was slam dunk brachah for Hallel on Rosh Chodesh,
> why does Minhag Chabad hedge and have Shatz say brachah for others?
> [Which matches AhS's position]
> Even Rema hedges when a person is alone to get at least one more person.

Because the story in Taanis is with a tzibbur; there's no indication
whether a yachid should also say a bracha, and indeed the RIF says that
he shouldn't.  (I haven't seen this RIF inside, but I saw it quoted
somewhere.)


-- 
Zev Sero                      The trouble with socialism is that you
zev at sero.name                 eventually run out of other people’s money
                                                     - Margaret Thatcher