[Avodah] mei marom

[Zev Sero]

Again, where do you see, anywhere in the story, *any* indication that
the Roman did teshuvah?

Micha Berger wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 01, 2009 at 11:26:05AM -0500, Zev Sero wrote:
> : >I have no idea why you say that. The peshetl simply requires someone to
> : >note "qoneh olamo besha'ah achas".

> . No.  If you think that's all it requires, read it again...

> It requires the centurion listening to the dialog between RCbT and his
> talmidim, and seeing that as a martyr's victorious death. The reaction
> is secondary, and is AFTER the centurion's decision. As long as anyone
> calls it qoneh olamo, the result is the same.

Read it again.  The entire pshetel is not about the Roman's decision
but about RChbT's supposed reaction.

> : No.  If you think that's all it requires, read it again.  The whole
> : How does teshuvah earn OHB?  What did he *do* to earn it? ...

> Who said din is about what one does. As we read last week and will
> again next Rosh haShanah, din is about ba'asher hu sham. Which
> teshuvah changes.

Baasher hu sham is about Yishmael's life being worth saving; he had
not yet done any averos, so why shouldn't he be saved?  But here
we're talking about reward, and what reward had Yishmael or REbD
earned?  To earn a reward you must do something; and yet REbD got
it anyway.  Thus Rebbi's tears.

> :>Your statement about tzadiq gozeir explicitly relies on the centurion
> :>NOT deserving it. He wasn't qoneh olamo -- RCbT so-to-speak forced the
> :>issue despite that. Thus, a lack of justice.

> : He literally *bought* it.  As for justice, he got in on RChbT's zechus,
> : not his own..

> Which is not just. You have someone who theoretically is capable of
> getting hanaah from ziv haShechinah without actuall developing that
> capability within himself. No preparing in the prozdor, but enjoying the
> banquet anyway?

His ticket was paid for, by someone who did more than enough avodah
to get two people in.  Yes, it seems unfair; if it didn't Rebbi
wouldn't have cried.  But that's an emotional reaction; it doesn't
mean there's no din or dayan, ch"v.  It's the same reaction as one
has when a wastrel inherits a fortune; why did he deserve it and not
me?  The answer is that he didn't deserve it, but his father who
worked for that fortune chose to give it to him, so it is justly his.

-- 
Zev Sero                      The trouble with socialism is that you
zev at sero.name                 eventually run out of other people's money
                                                     - Margaret Thatcher