[Avodah] so is she married?

[kennethgmiller at juno.com]

R' Micha Berger responded to my question:

> I understood RARR as saying that lemaaseh we are meiqil,
> whether he says "Will you marry me" or "Harei at me'ureset
> li". However, why enter territory where there are opinions
> that are machmir?

Yes, I *do* understand that if someone holds the halacha to be lenient in a certain situation, he might nevertheless avoid that situation out of respect for opinions which are machmir.

But I can understand that *only* if there is some reasonable basis to the machmir opinions. If Rav A and Rav B have a reasonable difference of opinion, I can see where the lenient one would defer to the strict one -- at least in the lechatchila situations -- out of an abundance of caution. But if they differ not in their opinions, but on a point of fact, it is difficult for me to fathom why one would be machmir for opinions which are, to put it perhaps too bluntly, just plain mistaken.

I am trying to understand the basis -- and/or the names -- of the opinions which RARR is being machmir for. Why do they think there is a safek kiddushin here? Are they familiar with this culture's engagement practices? Exactly who are they? Are they recognized world-class poskim, or are they just footnotes in some sefer, and people accepted it without thinking?

When teenagers play around, and stage a pretend wedding, everyone knows that they were just playing, and did not intend to actually get married. But they *did* go through the motions. The acts they did were ones which would accomplish kiddushin, if only the kavana was there. The situation is very similar to the gemara's case of a rasha who gives kiddushin "on condition that I am a tzadik". Since he might have done teshuva in that instant, poskim are choshesh for the kiddushin, and require a get.

But in that situation, they *did* go through the motions, and the only argmuent against the kiddushin being valid is the arguable kavana. That's not the case in our situation. I maintain that in our situation, they did not even go through the motions.

In our case, it is simply not true that they were discussing getting married. They were discussing getting *engaged*. They did not say or do anything which would lead a viewer to conclude - or even to suspect - that their intention was to be married at that time. They were discussing getting married at some *future* time. The only way anyone could get confused about this is if they did not understand English, or they did not understand the local customs. And I don't know why the confusion of such a person should cause this act to become a safek kiddushin.

Akiva Miller

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