[Avodah] Early morning minyan

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 01:32:56AM +0000, kennethgmiller at juno.com wrote:
:> Yes, for each chazan as an individual, it's a berakhah
:> haseumchah lecheverta, but what preserves that nature
:> for the minyan? Or -- I'll add, starting to think of
:> answers to my own question -- does the minyan not
:> really count for pesuqei dezimra?

: Yes, I too suspect that your closing line answers the question.

: We need a minyan for kaddish. We need a minyan and a chazan for
: barchu....

<Tangent>
    Is it "Borkhu" or "Barekhu"? (Qamatz qatan, sheva nach, or qamatz
    gadol sheva na?) Ashirah Lashem <http://www.aishdas.org/siddur.shtml>
    has "Barekhu", but what do I know? A personal observation about
    my own journey: I invested a lot of effort trying to recreate the
    nusach of RYBS for it. Happens to be IMHO an endless effort, since
    his own nusach evolved over time and therefore you get conflicting
    eidus. Still, I don't think if I were putting it together today,
    I would have chosen his nusach in particular.
</Tangent>

: Switching chazanim between Baruch She'amar and Yishtabach doesn't retain
: unity. They don't have any unity to retain. (Tzibur-wise, I mean. Each
: chazan must be sure to say both. It's just that each chazan says one
: aloud and the other quietly.)

Then how can we say the Qaddish after it?

Let me step back a second. Say I went to a beris and got held up in
traffic. Now I'm davening during everyone else's breakfast. When I
finish Barekhu, do I say Qaddish because a minyan is there?

Let's say a group of people were learning different things in the same
beis medrash. Someone gets up, and without the usual "R' Chanania ben
Aqashia omeir" starts Qaddish deRabbanan. Was he correct? (And is
the need for unity part of why we have the minhag of learning RCbAO?)

I based this conversation on the assumption is that the answer is "no"
-- that the positioning of this Qaddish is based on the tzibur finishing
the unit of Pesuqei deZimra or the tzibur learning. And therefore the
whole question of whether the minyan had a semuchah lechaverta or not
became relevent.

But the truth is that the two concepts of "chavita" -- that for Qaddish
and that for berakhos -- needn't be the same.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Man can aspire to spiritual-moral greatness
micha at aishdas.org        which is seldom fully achieved and easily lost
http://www.aishdas.org   again. Fullfillment lies not in a final goal,
Fax: (270) 514-1507      but in an eternal striving for perfection. -RSRH