[Avodah] answering Amen to various brachot

[Shlomo Pick]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is “1-18:3”?

A native sefardi knows how to distinguish between a kamatz and patach,
especially a kamatz gadol. Ashkenazim don’t ‘hear” it, but it’s there.
Hence, a native Ashkenazi who switches to sefardit does not distinguish and
thus some posekim say he should continue saying the shem adnus with a
komatz.

I think the issue of minhag hamakom was taken up in the Avodah lists. Your
explanation will still support mine t

That the questioner should answer amen in all other places and rav teitz’s
pesak was not a general one. And since you come from Elizabeth, what is the
practice today where many an American is brought up with sefardi
pronunciation.  A ba’al teshuva or new native who has to daven for the amud
and was brought up with Sephardic pronunciation is not allowed to daven for
the amud?

Shlomo pick

מאת: Michael Poppers [mailto:MPoppers at kayescholer.com] 
נשלח: Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:06 PM
אל: avodah at lists.aishdas.org
עותק: Shlomo Pick; Jay F Shachter; REMT at juno.com
נושא: Re: answering Amen to various brachot

 


(As before, forgive me (a) for being way behind in Avodah-digest reading;
and (b) if someone has mentioned this already....) 

In Avodah Digest V26#7, RSP wrote: 
> ...To this I received the following response and which was also posted in
areivim:
>> I lived in Elizabeth, NJ from 1968 to 1974. Rav Teitz regularly came on
Sunday mornings to daven in the Bais Yitzchok shul on Bellevue Street. (For
those who do not know much about Elizabeth, Rav P. M Teitz, ZT"L, was THE
rov of the city. He was the rov of the 4 Orthodox shuls in Elizabeth. See
 <http://tinyurl.com/63gryd> http://tinyurl.com/63gryd for more about Rav
Teitz and his amazing
accomplishments in building Orthodoxy in Elizabeth, NJ.)
>> One Sunday morning an obviously Sefardi fellow whom I had never seen
before
was davening for the Amud. After a moment or two Rav Teitz stopped him and
said, "You can pronounce any word the way you want except for HaShem's name.
You cannot say A--nai (that is, pronouncing a kamatz as if it were a pasach
as some Sefardim do.). You must say A--noi (pronouncing the kamatz with an
Ashkenaz pronunciation.) Your pronunciation is Chol for us and we cannot
answer Amen.... <<
[snip] 
> Rav teitz's ruling seems to be a da'at yachid only applicable to Elizabeth
(then?) and it would appear that what rav teitz did appears to be applicable
ONLY to his own town, just as he had the authority to prohibit meat that did
not his have approval to be sold there.  Nonetheless, I am not so sure other
posekim would hold of his pesak. < 
I would imagine that Rav Teitz zichrono livrachah (hereafter RPMT) was
correcting the SHaTZ solely on behalf of the q'hilah and for the sake of the
tzibbur that the SHaTZ was supposedly representing.  AFAIK, minhag hamaqom
(w/ the maqom being the community which was under the guidance of RPMT and
currently is under the aegis of listmember REMT) is that sheim Adnus must be
pronounced as indicated above (and not only during t'filah but also during
q'riyas haTorah, e.g. 1-18:3) in order to distinguish it as indicated above
(likewise, when the word is chol, e.g. 1-19:2, it must be pronounced with a
patach rather than a qamatz according to the pronunciation as indicated
above). 

In V26#10, RJFS wrote: 
> It is regrettable that R' Pinxas Teitz is no longer alive to defend
himself; perhaps one of his living descendants will speak for him,
because this psaq, assuming it is correctly reported, does not appear
to be well thought-out....And yet, R' Pinxas Teitx, if this story is
correctly
reported, publicly embarrassed someone rather than rely on this
normative halakha. < 
WADR, a violation of minhag hamaqom isn't a situation based on logic, and I
would not presume to question the need to stop a SHaTZ ex post facto and
ensure that he properly represented the tzibbur for the remainder of his
shlichus. 

A guten Shabbes and all the best from 
Michael Poppers * Elizabeth, NJ, USA

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