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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Excuse my ignorance, but what is “</span></font><font
color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>1-18:3”?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>A native sefardi knows how to
distinguish between a kamatz and patach, especially a kamatz gadol. Ashkenazim don’t
‘hear” it, but it’s there. Hence, a native Ashkenazi who switches to sefardit
does not distinguish and thus some posekim say he should continue saying the
shem adnus with a komatz.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>I think the issue of minhag hamakom was
taken up in the Avodah lists. Your explanation will still support mine t</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>That the questioner should answer amen in
all other places and rav teitz’s pesak was not a general one. And since you
come from <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Elizabeth</st1:place></st1:City>,
what is the practice today where many an American is brought up with sefardi
pronunciation. A ba’al teshuva or new native who has to daven for the amud and
was brought up with Sephardic pronunciation is not allowed to daven for the
amud?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Shlomo pick</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span lang=HE dir=RTL
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>îàú</span></font></b><span
dir=LTR></span><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'><span dir=LTR></span>:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Michael
Poppers [mailto:MPoppers@kayescholer.com] <br>
<b><span lang=HE dir=RTL style='font-weight:bold'>ðùìç</span><span dir=LTR></span><span
dir=LTR></span>:</b> Thursday, January 29, 2009 8:06 PM<br>
<b><span lang=HE dir=RTL style='font-weight:bold'>àì</span><span dir=LTR></span><span
dir=LTR></span>:</b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">avodah@lists.aishdas.org</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span lang=HE dir=RTL style='font-weight:bold'>òåú÷</span><span dir=LTR></span><span
dir=LTR></span>:</b> Shlomo Pick; Jay F Shachter; REMT@juno.com<br>
<b><span lang=HE dir=RTL style='font-weight:bold'>ðåùà</span><span dir=LTR></span><span
dir=LTR></span>:</b> Re: answering Amen to various brachot</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-family:Verdana;
color:navy'>(As before, forgive me (a) for being way behind in Avodah-digest
reading; and (b) if someone has mentioned this already....)</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'>In
Avodah Digest V26#7, RSP wrote:</span></font> <br>
<tt><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> ...To
this I received the following response and which was also posted in</span></font></tt><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">areivim:</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">>> I lived in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">Elizabeth</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">NJ</st1:State></st1:place>
from 1968 to 1974. Rav Teitz regularly came on</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">Sunday mornings to daven in the Bais Yitzchok shul
on <st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">Bellevue Street</st1:address></st1:Street>.
(For</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">those who do not know much about Elizabeth, Rav P.
M Teitz, ZT"L, was THE</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">rov of the city. He was the rov of the 4 Orthodox
shuls in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Elizabeth</st1:place></st1:City>.
See</font></tt><br>
</span></font><a href="http://tinyurl.com/63gryd"><tt><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>http://tinyurl.com/63gryd for
more about Rav Teitz and his amazing</span></font></tt><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">accomplishments in building Orthodoxy in
Elizabeth, NJ.)</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">>> One Sunday morning an obviously Sefardi
fellow whom I had never seen before</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">was davening for the Amud. After a moment or two
Rav Teitz stopped him and</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">said, "You can pronounce any word the way you
want except for HaShem's name.</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">You cannot say A--nai (that is, pronouncing a
kamatz as if it were a pasach</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">as some Sefardim do.). You must say A--noi
(pronouncing the kamatz with an</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">Ashkenaz pronunciation.) Your pronunciation is
Chol for us and we cannot</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">answer Amen.... <<</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">[snip]</font></tt></span></font></a> <br>
<tt><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>> Rav
teitz's ruling seems to be a da'at yachid only applicable to <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Elizabeth</st1:place></st1:City></span></font></tt><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">(then?) and it would appear that what rav teitz
did appears to be applicable</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">ONLY to his own town, just as he had the authority
to prohibit meat that did</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">not his have approval to be sold there.
Nonetheless, I am not so sure other</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">posekim would hold of his pesak. <</font></tt></span></font>
<br>
<font color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>I
would imagine that Rav Teitz zichrono livrachah (hereafter RPMT) was correcting
the SHaTZ solely on behalf of the q'hilah and for the sake of the tzibbur that
the SHaTZ was supposedly representing. AFAIK, minhag hamaqom (w/ the
maqom being the community which was under the guidance of RPMT and currently is
under the aegis of listmember REMT) is that sheim Adnus must be pronounced as
indicated above (and not only during t'filah but also during q'riyas haTorah,
e.g. 1-18:3) in order to distinguish it as indicated above (likewise, when the
word is chol, e.g. 1-19:2, it must be pronounced with a patach rather than a
qamatz according to the pronunciation as indicated above).</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>In </span></font><font
size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'>V26#10</span></font><font
color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>, RJFS
wrote:</span></font> <br>
<font color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>>
</span></font><tt><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>It
is regrettable that R' Pinxas Teitz is no longer alive to defend</span></font></tt><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">himself; perhaps one of his living descendants
will speak for him,</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">because this psaq, assuming it is correctly
reported, does not appear</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">to be well thought-out.</font></tt></span></font><font
color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>...</span></font><tt><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>And yet, R' Pinxas
Teitx, if this story is correctly</span></font></tt><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">reported, publicly embarrassed someone rather than
rely on this</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">normative halakha.</font></tt></span></font><font
color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-family:Verdana;color:navy'> </span></font><font
size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><</span></font>
<br>
<font color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>WADR,
a violation of minhag hamaqom isn't a situation based on logic, and I would not
presume to question the need to stop a SHaTZ ex post facto and ensure that he
properly represented the tzibbur for the remainder of his shlichus.</span></font>
<br>
<br>
<font color=navy face=Verdana><span style='font-family:Verdana;color:navy'>A
guten Shabbes and all the best from</span></font> <br>
<font size=4 color=blue face="Monotype Corsiva"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;
font-family:"Monotype Corsiva";color:blue'>Michael Poppers</span></font><font
size=4 color=blue face=Verdana><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Verdana;
color:blue'> * </span></font><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font
size=4 color=blue face="EngraversGothic BT"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;
font-family:"EngraversGothic BT";color:blue'>Elizabeth</span></font></st1:City><font
size=4 color=blue face="EngraversGothic BT"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;
font-family:"EngraversGothic BT";color:blue'>, <st1:State w:st="on">NJ</st1:State>,
<st1:country-region w:st="on">USA</st1:country-region></span></font></st1:place><o:p></o:p></p>
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