[Avodah] T'uM

[Zev Sero]

Richard Wolpoe wrote:
> Zev Sero <zev at sero.name> wrote:
>     Richard Wolpoe wrote:

>>> From a strictly puritanical vewi once the US governmetn stopped
>>> paying gold or silver for paper miny it is ARGUABKLE that all w
>>> have is US Scrip instead of Golden Acres Scrip.

>> No, it isn't arguable.  It's nonsense.

> So how did Golden Acres get around the issue of Muktzeh with scrip? What 
> about  those rabbis who instituted this procedure?  Waht did they gain?

I express no opinion on this Golden Acres scheme; I have no idea where
it is, or what rabbanim came up with this scheme, or how exactly it
worked.  If I were called on to actually participate in such a scheme
I'd have several questions.  But my point here is that whatever the
status of that scheme, it has no bearing on Federal Reserve Notes,
which are *not* scrip at all, but actual money.  Perhaps not for all
halachic purposes, but in law and in reality.


> When is shava kessef kessef?

That's not the question.  Especially with regard to kiddushin, since
shveh kesef *is* good for kiddushin, and indeed that is what we use!
A ring is shveh kesef, not actual kesef.  You could be mekadesh just
as easily with a can of baked beans.  But perhaps not with fiat money.


> Is a shtar chov the same as money because it has value?

For muktzeh, yes.  For kiddushin, no.  But fiat money is *not* a
shtar chov.

-- 
Zev Sero               Something has gone seriously awry with this Court's
zev at sero.name          interpretation of the Constitution.
                       	                          - Clarence Thomas