[Avodah] TIDE and Austritt

[Gershon Seif]

I just read through RMB's long and thoughtful post on TIDE and Austritt.

I'm sure many of you are aware that this very question is the subject of a number of articles written over the years. I wonder if some of this isn't just chazora of what has already been argued.

I have been slowly going through Hirsch's peirush on chumash for some time. Unless we are to say that Hirsch was spinning his peirush to fit what he felt was the right course of action politically (which is something I'm not inclined to say) studying the storyline of the Torah seems to be all about the relationship of TIDE with Austritt.

>>> Granted, in the peirush Hirsch's wasn't discussing the separation from other Jewish groups though. He was talking about separation from other streams of humanity - in order to set an example for them. So take what I present just as food for thought and not a proof. But still, I think the parallels are there if you think about them. So I use the term Austritt below loosely to highlight the notion of separation.

First there's the universal plan for Man. (the hope for no need for Austritt since Mankind is all on the same page)
When Man fails and society declines, Avrohom Avinu emerges.

He is told "lech l'cha." Austritt. He must remove himself from his surroundings in order to become what he must become. At the same time he is to call out in the name of Hashem. - As A"A arrives in C'naan, he goes to the hills, avoiding the cities (more Austritt emphasised by Hirsch)

Later Hirsch writes that Yitzchok needed to learn that he was wrong for settling (vayeishev) in Grar. He should have stayed there only a transitory "Vayagar." 

Yitzchok (after he was sent out of town and after arguing over the wells) at that point Yitzchok left  on his own to the next location, this time getting it right and going there b'lashon "vayagar." From that point onward, things were much better for him. >>> Yitzchok had learned the importance of Austritt.

Klal Yirsrael is live apart in Mitzrayim, Is to live apart in Ertez Yisrael.....

And all the while, just like A"A who is Av Hamon Goyim, with the role of helping the world come to its end goal, remaining apart.

Is it far fetched to say that Hirsch's Austritt and his understanding of Klal Yisroel in relation to the umos ha'olom were parts of the smae concept? I don't think so.

>>>I think Hirsch's insistence on separating his Kehilla from the WR etc. wasn't the Austritt he was really trying to make happen. That was a bitter and unfortunate result of "stuff that happened." He stuck to his guns because of the other Austritt from the Graetz's and the Geigers. He felt without a clean separation from R & C, Orthodosy's mission would be diluted. That was all a side fight that was a distraction from the real fight. I have a hunch that was RNB's understanding too.