[Avodah] HQBH speaks through History [was R' Angel & Geirus Redux]

[T613K at aol.com]

From: "Michael Makovi" _mikewinddale at gmail.com_ 
(mailto:mikewinddale at gmail.com) 

>>Rabbi  Shelomoh Danziger discusses how the mekor of TIDE is that before
a person is  a Jew placed in his particular spiritual place, he is a
human placed in this  physical world - derech eretz kadmah et ha-Torah
(or something like that).  G-d placed us in this world to live in it
and to develop it as per Bereshit  1:28. Rabbi Weinberg says that Torah
is the form and derech eretz the matter.  How then can understanding
our world not have independent  value?<<
 
 
 How can you fulfill the mitzvah
to conquer earth if you don't  understand it? Torah is the how, but
derech eretz is the what, and how can  the how exist without the what?

If chol has no independent value, but is  only something to be subdued
and conquered by Torah, why not simply sidestep  the issue and ban all
chol? <<

 
 
>>>>>
I don't understand anything you wrote or any of your questions and  
nevertheless feel somehow obligated to answer them.  All I can do is to  reiterate that 
secular knowledge is an extremely valuable and useful body of  knowledge and 
well worth a Jew's time and effort to obtain.  The TuM ideal  of "two 
mountains" -- two independent and equally valuable bodies of knowledge,  secular 
knowledge and Torah -- is foreign to the TIDE ideal of obtaining secular  knowledge 
in order to further one's avodas Hashem and passing all knowledge  through 
the prism of Torah.  
 
In terms of the time spent, I confess that I spend more time on secular  
reading than I should.  The ideal division of time is something like what  my 
father zt'l used to do -- 95% of his reading/learning was Torah and seforim  and 
maybe 5% was secular books and newspapers.  In some charedi circles  even 5% -- 
even one percent -- would be considered unacceptable bitzul  zman.  My father 
considered it necessary and valuable.  That is how I  understand TIDE.
 
Let me give you an example of something concrete that might show the  
difference between TuM and TIDE.  It has been suggested here on Avodah that  science 
is its own sphere and Torah is its own sphere, and when you are studying  
science, you leave Torah out of it, while when you are studying Torah, you leave  
science out of it.  Each is its own domain.  Such a two-brained view  of the 
world is TuM and certainly not TIDE.
 
A TIDE-ist /could/ accept R' Slifkin's wonderful books on science and  Torah 
but could not read science articles in the NYT uncritically. In fact,  
critical and independent reading of secular sources is a hallmark of  TIDE.  It is 
what enables us to pick out strands in a science article, like  picking out 
individual strands of spaghetti, and say, "THIS strand is based on  facts and data 
but THAT strand is based on the secular scientist's own biases  and 
preconceptions."  Reading through Torah glasses is what TIDE is all  about.




--Toby  Katz
=============





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