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size=2>From: "Michael Makovi" <A
href="mailto:mikewinddale@gmail.com">mikewinddale@gmail.com</A><BR><BR>>>Rabbi
Shelomoh Danziger discusses how the mekor of TIDE is that before<BR>a person is
a Jew placed in his particular spiritual place, he is a<BR>human placed in this
physical world - derech eretz kadmah et ha-Torah<BR>(or something like that).
G-d placed us in this world to live in it<BR>and to develop it as per Bereshit
1:28. Rabbi Weinberg says that Torah<BR>is the form and derech eretz the matter.
How then can understanding<BR>our world not have independent
value?<<</FONT></DIV>
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size=2> How can you fulfill the mitzvah<BR>to conquer earth if you don't
understand it? Torah is the how, but<BR>derech eretz is the what, and how can
the how exist without the what?<BR><BR>If chol has no independent value, but is
only something to be subdued<BR>and conquered by Torah, why not simply sidestep
the issue and ban all<BR>chol? <<</FONT></DIV><FONT
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<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>>>>>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>I don't understand anything you wrote or any of your questions and
nevertheless feel somehow obligated to answer them. All I can do is to
reiterate that secular knowledge is an extremely valuable and useful body of
knowledge and well worth a Jew's time and effort to obtain. The TuM ideal
of "two mountains" -- two independent and equally valuable bodies of knowledge,
secular knowledge and Torah -- is foreign to the TIDE ideal of obtaining secular
knowledge in order to further one's avodas Hashem and passing all knowledge
through the prism of Torah. </FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>In terms of the time spent, I confess that I spend more time on secular
reading than I should. The ideal division of time is something like what
my father zt'l used to do -- 95% of his reading/learning was Torah and seforim
and maybe 5% was secular books and newspapers. In some charedi circles
even 5% -- even one percent -- would be considered unacceptable bitzul
zman. My father considered it necessary and valuable. That is how I
understand TIDE.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>Let me give you an example of something concrete that might show the
difference between TuM and TIDE. It has been suggested here on Avodah that
science is its own sphere and Torah is its own sphere, and when you are studying
science, you leave Torah out of it, while when you are studying Torah, you leave
science out of it. Each is its own domain. Such a two-brained view
of the world is TuM and certainly not TIDE.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000
size=2>A TIDE-ist /could/ accept R' Slifkin's wonderful books on science and
Torah but could not read science articles in the NYT uncritically. In fact,
critical and independent reading of secular sources is a hallmark of
TIDE. It is what enables us to pick out strands in a science article, like
picking out individual strands of spaghetti, and say, "THIS strand is based on
facts and data but THAT strand is based on the secular scientist's own biases
and preconceptions." Reading through Torah glasses is what TIDE is all
about.</DIV>
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<DIV><FONT lang=0 face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
PTSIZE="10"><BR><B>--Toby
Katz<BR>=============<BR></B><BR></FONT></DIV></DIV></FONT><BR><BR><BR><DIV><FONT style="color: black; font: normal 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF;"><HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at <A title="http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851" href="http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851" target="_blank">AOL Autos</A>.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>